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Technical fiat 500 dualogic multiple failures

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Technical fiat 500 dualogic multiple failures

bgunn said:
Overshifting? That's a nonsensical term. Do you mean changing gear too often, or over revving the car before changing gear?
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They meant I was shifting the gears too much but I said that's bs because if I did something to break the system it would warn and beep at me, in this case it does nothing so that measn something is wrong with the system and not my 'overusing' the gearbox!
 
ahmett said:
They meant I was shifting the gears too much but I said that's bs because if I did something to break the system it would warn and beep at me, in this case it does nothing so that measn something is wrong with the system and not my 'overusing' the gearbox!
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Yeah they want me to pay 250 euros to fix the problem. Fiat says they wont pay because they say it is not a permanent fault as in it happens now and then.
 
ahmett said:
Yeah they want me to pay 250 euros to fix the problem. Fiat says they wont pay because they say it is not a permanent fault as in it happens now and then.
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I don't think that could be the definition of a fault covered (or not) under warranty. If it's faulty, it's faulty, intermittent or not. Sounds like the full story isn't being told to me. The car isn't in warranty anyway, is it?
 
bgunn said:
I don't think that could be the definition of a fault covered (or not) under warranty. If it's faulty, it's faulty, intermittent or not. Sounds like the full story isn't being told to me. The car isn't in warranty anyway, is it?
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No it is 6 months out of warranty but I am covered as I first reported this problem over 1 year ago and it was never fixed.
What Fiat is saying is that there is no problem in the first place, and the intermittent fault codes, according to them, are random events!
 
ahmett said:
No it is 6 months out of warranty but I am covered as I first reported this problem over 1 year ago and it was never fixed.
What Fiat is saying is that there is no problem in the first place, and the intermittent fault codes, according to them, are random events!
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Freeze frame data is usually captured at that point (not sure if the Dualogic ECU does this) which will point to any sensor reading that is not rational.

I'd like to see any software/ECU designer argue that a stored fault coinciding with a perceived fault is a 'random event'.
 
bgunn said:
Freeze frame data is usually captured at that point (not sure if the Dualogic ECU does this) which will point to any sensor reading that is not rational.

I'd like to see any software/ECU designer argue that a stored fault coinciding with a perceived fault is a 'random event'.
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Yes I have tried my best to no avail. I am sending this email to Fiat and if no joy I will source the parts I need get this problem fixed for lets say around 100 euros at an independent and hope it will fix it.

Here is the email I sent.


Case Number: 33250198.

Hello,


I am in need of your assistance.
Ever since I have had the car first serviced by Fiat Pazaropoulous in September 2011, the Duallogic gearbox of my Fiat 500 1.4 has been acting weirdly, as in not reacting in any way to some gearshifts. Now this problem has been intermittent (as in coming and going ever since then). In January of 2012, the gearbox seal broke completely and was fixed by yourselves under warranty. After that it was working normally, but then the problem started happening again. When I moved the gear lever there was no reaction at all and it said ‘manual mode unavailable’. I went to the dealer Fiat Auto One in Marousi, and they told me that yes they see that the gearbox does not communicate with the gear lever, they did some tests, and reset the ECU and problem solved. However, it started happening again after a few months!

Recently, and for some reason whenever it rains it happens more often, a red light came on the dashboard (the transmission light) with it saying Check Gearbox- see handbook. So I went back to Fiat Auto One in Marousi and they told me yes there is an instantaneous fault code, so when the engine is restarted the code disappears. So there is a fault with the system, and it goes on saying manual mode is unavailable. Now think how annoying it is when you are going to try and park, you shift the gearlever from 1st into reverse at a standstill (if you do it without stopping the gearbox doesn’t let you anyway it goes BEEP BEEP BEEP) and the gearbox does not react at all until you restart the car several times! This, as you know, is ridiculous. So as we see, there is a problem, and the workshop awklowledged it but they told me diagnostics doesn’t come with a permanent specific fault so they told me to contact you.

I contacted Fiat Greece and they tell me that the dealer thinks they know what the problem is (I spoke to a technician for 15 minutes and he told me that the ‘something’ometer (I forgot the name they know) is malfunctioning and that he has seen this problem before. Then he told me, problem is diagnostics does not see it completely as a permanent problem so Fiat may not fix it.

The dealer called me today to tell me that yes indeed Fiat does not want to fix this problem with their gearbox (the gearbox is produced by Magnetti Marelli which is indeed owned by Fiat), and that the dealer will charge me 250 euros to this fix.

Now are you telling me this is normal and fair? I have to fix a problem that has been apparent since the car was barely 1 year old???
I told this to Fiat Customer Services Greece on the phone, and they told me there is nothing they can do. I told them do you want me to drive to the main office of Fiat HQ and show them physically there is a problem that their diagnostics refuse to understand?

To show that I am not wasting anyones time (why should I go through all this hassle for no reason?), I am attaching some evidence of my problems.

As you can see in picture number 1, the gearbox is in the R (reverse) position but on the display it says 1, as in it is assuming the gearlever never moved! Is this normal? I do not think so, as I have said before the gearbox lever if it senses the driver doing something wrong GOES BEEP BEEP BEEP! I am sending you other pictures and videos to prove this, I even have a link on youtube that I posted.




Personally I think Fiat Pazaropoulos sabotaged my car in some way as (I didn’t know at the time) they were going bankrupt and their employees probably weren’t really paid on time and couldn’t care less about servicing their cars, they were losing the franchise anyway. Now this is not my fault, Fiat should choose better dealers.

As a result, I am asking, no I AM BEGGING, please fix this problem for me. If it doesn’t solve it I will give up and try to fix it myself, or simply sell this car and move on, I cant have transmission problems for the rest of my life.
It is a big shame as, other than this gearbox issue, I am really enjoying the car.


Please help me. Any replies, positive or negative would be much appreciated.


With my Kindest Regards

Ahmet Douas
Athens, Greece
 
Hi guys I asked the fiat dealership what part they thought was casuing the problem and they told me that it is the potentiometer. Hope that helps. Any dualogic knowledgable people understand what the problem is now that I have given the part?
 
ahmett said:
Hi guys I asked the fiat dealership what part they thought was casuing the problem and they told me that it is the potentiometer. Hope that helps. Any dualogic knowledgable people understand what the problem is now that I have given the part?
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ahmett can you try and get part numbers for these parts they keep telling you need replacing, Dealers have a habit of calling bits something completly different to what they are.

We can then shove it into ePer and get an exploded view of the part :)
 
Most Easterly Pandas said:
@ahmett can you try and get part numbers for these parts they keep telling you need replacing, Dealers have a habit of calling bits something completly different to what they are.

We can then shove it into ePer and get an exploded view of the part :)
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Yeah they refuse to give it = (
I guess they know I will go elsewhere if they give it..
I asked a friend ex-opel tech who worked for a main dealer and whose cars had used dualogic gearboxes before opel changed their auto boxes for german suppliers saying that magnetti marelli's gearboxes were rubbish. He is investigating for me. maybe he will let me know.

I will try finding the part online...
 
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ahmett said:
Yeah they refuse to give it = (
I guess they know I will go elsewhere if they give it..
I asked a friend ex-opel tech who worked for a main dealer and whose cars had used dualogic gearboxes before opel changed their auto boxes for german suppliers saying that magnetti marelli's gearboxes were rubbish. He is investigating for me. maybe he will let me know.

I will try finding the part online...
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I spoke with fiat again to try and get a spare number (customer services not the dealer) and they told me they noted my email and they are planning a response so they told me to wait for their response before doing anything to the car. Anyway I will get the spare part number if I can for comparison sake.
 
ahmett said:
I spoke with fiat again to try and get a spare number (customer services not the dealer) and they told me they noted my email and they are planning a response so they told me to wait for their response before doing anything to the car. Anyway I will get the spare part number if I can for comparison sake.
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Ok I called another dealer that has no idea who I am and I got the part number and the price. it is 113 euros and the part number is 71752610. Thank you so much if you can help.
 
ahmett said:
Yeah they refuse to give it = (
I guess they know I will go elsewhere if they give it..
I asked a friend ex-opel tech who worked for a main dealer and whose cars had used dualogic gearboxes before opel changed their auto boxes for german suppliers saying that magnetti marelli's gearboxes were rubbish. He is investigating for me. maybe he will let me know.

I will try finding the part online...
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Magneti Marelli don't make gearboxes, they make electronic/electric components.

I suspect it's the gearlever position sensor - it's akin to the sensor S&S cars have to know whether you've put the car in gear (in addition to the switch on the non dualogic gearbox). Sits under the gearlever it seems. I'll get a piccy for you later when I'm back at home.
 
bgunn said:
Magneti Marelli don't make gearboxes, they make electronic/electric components.

I suspect it's the gearlever position sensor - it's akin to the sensor S&S cars have to know whether you've put the car in gear (in addition to the switch on the non dualogic gearbox). Sits under the gearlever it seems. I'll get a piccy for you later when I'm back at home.
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Yes that's what it is. I would be really grateful if you can get me a pic. The gearbox works just fine, it just doesn't sense the gearlevers movements sometimes!
 
ahmett said:
Yes that's what it is. I would be really grateful if you can get me a pic. The gearbox works just fine, it just doesn't sense the gearlevers movements sometimes!
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Well, it might not be a photograph, more a line drawing.. I'll see what I can do. Although, technically I shouldn't reproduce FIAT copywritten material without their permission!
 
bgunn said:
Well, it might not be a photograph, more a line drawing.. I'll see what I can do. Although, technically I shouldn't reproduce FIAT copywritten material without their permission!
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anything will be fine! then pm me and send it by email if you want haha.
I know a competent electrical engineer, he tells me he can clean the sensor and see if that fixes it.
 
Gearlever.JPG


It looks like you need number 1 from this diagram, price is £126.60 inc. VAT (according to December 2012 prices).
 
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