Technical Fait Ducato - check engine issue, DPF and ESR valve issues

[ClareJ]

I have a 2019 fiat ducato, just out of warranty.
Check Engine warning appeared, fiat garage replaced filter and sensor and not fixed. They contacted fiat technical and ive now being told I need a new Diesel Particular Filter and Exhaust Gas Recirculation Valve at a cost of £5.6k..
Has anyone else experienced nothing like this, the van has been seviced, mainly long runs, two trips to France and around the UK, only done 11k mikes. I’ve logged a case with Fiat and awaiting a reply.

 

[theoneandonly]

Clare you are in the right place.
A few questions :
at late 2019 the 2.3 ducato engine was changed to ad blue (a second filler cap next to the diesel cap) if the earlier twin EGR engine there is a range of experiance with that motor (i have one).
is it a comformatic automatic?
have you got the error codes? do you know the ecu version?
a couple of threads to read,

Ducato P0401 P0402 P0236 P0238 and limp mode its 2017 Euro 6, EGR changed, What do I check next | FIAT Ducato

Van is 2017 Euro 6 bought new , now with 26K on clock. Problems started this summer with dash engine light and code P0401 appeared on a country lane at low speed going into a corner so it would be low airflow going in to the engine as it wasn’t ‘working’. Bought FCR and cleared fault, happened...

www.fiatforum.com

Ducato 2017 2.3 Euro 6 problems EGR, DPF P0401-61 help please | FIAT Ducato

Our Ducato 2.3 comfortmatic Campervan (with 24k miles only) is throwing intermittent fault P0401-61 which shows as High Pressure EGR valve blocked. I've had discussions with PC Vehicle Movements (thanks Paul), and on his recommendation have booked the van in with the dealer to check for factory...

www.fiatforum.com

as you can see this is a worldwide problem with there being different responses from Fiat
The first thing normaly required for help is to have solid data to work with. and that needs Software and hardware Multiecuscan (for windows PC) and an OBD2 dongle, both are available from Gendan in swansea including a yellow adaptor .
then how to use? heres a tutorial on what and how to measure with multiecuscan (MES for short)

Tutorial to Measure specific Engine PIDs (Parameter ID) and Save data for analysis.

This was originally written to help one person with his Ducato totally new to MES to start saving data. it is not an exhaustive manual nor intended to be. Tutorial to Measure specific Engine PIDs (Parameter ID) and Save data for analysis. Open...

www.fiatforum.com

MultiECUScan

Help, tips and advice for using MultiECUScan.

www.fiatforum.com

this is a list of people with MES and willing to help.
thats enough for now
@Fredastaire @Baz in Kent

Ps dont allow the delear to chang the EGR and until we've seen further data it will not resolve your problem more "help" on its way

 

[Fredastaire]

Hi, I'm logging on here as you will realise that the both threads mentioned above were started by me.
.
The first point is to check whether you have the single fuel filler cap or two filler caps.
.
Those of us who appear in the above posts have the single filler cap model which was produced 2016 17 18. Should yours be a coachbuilt then often the chassis would have been built in an earlier year than the registration year
.
Where in the UK are you?

 

[Baz in Kent]

I have a 2019 fiat ducato, just out of warranty.
Check Engine warning appeared, fiat garage replaced filter and sensor and not fixed. They contacted fiat technical and ive now being told I need a new Diesel Particular Filter and Exhaust Gas Recirculation Valve at a cost of £5.6k..
Has anyone else experienced nothing like this, the van has been seviced, mainly long runs, two trips to France and around the UK, only done 11k mikes. I’ve logged a case with Fiat and awaiting a reply.

Hi and sorry to hear you're another member of our unfortunate gang.
If you search my posts you'll see I was (eventually) successful in getting Fiat to pay for the parts but it was a battle.
@Fredastaire and @theoneandonly are steering you in the right direction.
Good luck.

 

[ClareJ]

Hi, I'm logging on here as you will realise that the both threads mentioned above were started by me.
.
The first point is to check whether you have the single fuel filler cap or two filler caps.
.
Those of us who appear in the above posts have the single filler cap model which was produced 2016 17 18. Should yours be a coachbuilt then often the chassis would have been built in an earlier year than the registration year
.
Where in the UK are you?

Hi, thanks for taking the time to reply. I have the single fuel cap.

im trying to get some contribution from fiat, but being told unlikely as vehicle serviced by motorhome retailer, didn’t even know that could be a problem.

 

[ClareJ]

Hi and sorry to hear you're another member of our unfortunate gang.
If you search my posts you'll see I was (eventually) successful in getting Fiat to pay for the parts but it was a battle.
@Fredastaire and @theoneandonly are steering you in the right direction.
Good luck.

Hi Baz,

did you replace the parts being recommended and has that fixed your problem?

thanjs

 

[ClareJ]

Clare you are in the right place.
A few questions :
at late 2019 the 2.3 ducato engine was changed to ad blue (a second filler cap next to the diesel cap) if the earlier twin EGR engine there is a range of experiance with that motor (i have one).
is it a comformatic automatic?
have you got the error codes? do you know the ecu version?
a couple of threads to read,

Ducato P0401 P0402 P0236 P0238 and limp mode its 2017 Euro 6, EGR changed, What do I check next | FIAT Ducato

Van is 2017 Euro 6 bought new , now with 26K on clock. Problems started this summer with dash engine light and code P0401 appeared on a country lane at low speed going into a corner so it would be low airflow going in to the engine as it wasn’t ‘working’. Bought FCR and cleared fault, happened...

www.fiatforum.com

Ducato 2017 2.3 Euro 6 problems EGR, DPF P0401-61 help please | FIAT Ducato

Our Ducato 2.3 comfortmatic Campervan (with 24k miles only) is throwing intermittent fault P0401-61 which shows as High Pressure EGR valve blocked. I've had discussions with PC Vehicle Movements (thanks Paul), and on his recommendation have booked the van in with the dealer to check for factory...

www.fiatforum.com

as you can see this is a worldwide problem with there being different responses from Fiat
The first thing normaly required for help is to have solid data to work with. and that needs Software and hardware Multiecuscan (for windows PC) and an OBD2 dongle, both are available from Gendan in swansea including a yellow adaptor .
then how to use? heres a tutorial on what and how to measure with multiecuscan (MES for short)

Tutorial to Measure specific Engine PIDs (Parameter ID) and Save data for analysis.

This was originally written to help one person with his Ducato totally new to MES to start saving data. it is not an exhaustive manual nor intended to be. Tutorial to Measure specific Engine PIDs (Parameter ID) and Save data for analysis. Open...

www.fiatforum.com

MultiECUScan

Help, tips and advice for using MultiECUScan.

www.fiatforum.com

this is a list of people with MES and willing to help.
thats enough for now
@Fredastaire @Baz in Kent

Ps dont allow the delear to chang the EGR and until we've seen further data it will not resolve your problem more "help" on its way

Hi, sorry for the delay, some extra information below:
- It’s a single fuel cap
- Manual
- RAC ran diagnostics first and I’ve attached the report
- I’ve not see anything from the dealer, but they have run diagnostics and been in contact with fiat technical (error below)
-
F1CE3481M - BOSCH EDC17CP52 CF5/EOBD
DTC: P0101-21,Air mass flow meter drift - signal amplitude

any advice very welcomed.

thanks

 

[Fredastaire]

Hi, I can only strongly advise that you join us on the main post on here and put a note on here that you have done so.
Next it's an absolute must that you buy Multiecuscan and install on a windows laptop.
At this point you can discuss with @theoneandonly and @Baz in Kent and myself the parameters to view and go for a drive whilst recording live data.
.
The live data and other parameters will identify where your problems are. No ordinary garage will have the data that we are amassing and their innocence will lead to an expensive diagnosis.
.
With Multiecuscan diagnosis this should show whether your DPF is cycling to self generate itself, most important with knowledge we have gained in only the last 2 weeks we will know if your LP EGR cooler is blocked or cycling.
.
The blocked cooler leads to the engine double strangling itself hence it's inability to measure airflow and throwing different arrays of fault codes for the same problem.
.
Fiat are well aware of this legacy, they updated the software to v32, you will need to have this update by your Fiat Dealer.
.
I do hope that we together can steer you towards the solution.
.
Who knows, if your DPF is cycling and your cooler not yet blocked then maybe the software update and a few component changes may help.

 

[ClareJ]

Hi, I can only strongly advise that you join us on the main post on here and put a note on here that you have done so.
Next it's an absolute must that you buy Multiecuscan and install on a windows laptop.
At this point you can discuss with @theoneandonly and @Baz in Kent and myself the parameters to view and go for a drive whilst recording live data.
.
The live data and other parameters will identify where your problems are. No ordinary garage will have the data that we are amassing and their innocence will lead to an expensive diagnosis.
.
With Multiecuscan diagnosis this should show whether your DPF is cycling to self generate itself, most important with knowledge we have gained in only the last 2 weeks we will know if your LP EGR cooler is blocked or cycling.
.
The blocked cooler leads to the engine double strangling itself hence it's inability to measure airflow and throwing different arrays of fault codes for the same problem.
.
Fiat are well aware of this legacy, they updated the software to v32, you will need to have this update by your Fiat Dealer.
.
I do hope that we together can steer you towards the solution.
.
Who knows, if your DPF is cycling and your cooler not yet blocked then maybe the software update and a few component changes may help.

Thanks again, please advise which tread is best, there was two and can you tell me exactly which multiecascan to buy? Thanks

 

[Fredastaire]

I've added a note on the main forum with your name so please look for a notification coming to you.
I also invite you to personal message me on this forum with your email detail. There are a number of us talking direct to each other and swapping notes in detail which would be too big to post here.

 

[theoneandonly]

Which thread

Ducato P0401 P0402 P0236 P0238 and limp mode its 2017 Euro 6, EGR changed, What do I check next | FIAT Ducato

Van is 2017 Euro 6 bought new , now with 26K on clock. Problems started this summer with dash engine light and code P0401 appeared on a country lane at low speed going into a corner so it would be low airflow going in to the engine as it wasn’t ‘working’. Bought FCR and cleared fault, happened...

www.fiatforum.com

For MES i can only reccomend the PC version.
1use a win10 laptop obdsx USB dongle and multiecuscan from Gendan with the yellow adaptor this is the easiest method

MultiECUScan CAN-only Diagnostic Bundle for some Fiat and Alfa Romeo cars (Single PC)

MultiECUScan CAN-only Diagnostic Bundle for some Fiat and Alfa Romeo cars (Single PC) - only £112.94 including VAT & UK delivery!

www.gendan.co.uk

The alternative is to get a Bluetooth OBD2 dongle and multiecuscan direct from multiecuscan.net
(I also have Alfaobd Android version with a Samsung j6 phone a8 or tabA tablet and a bluetooth dongle.)
The advantage of BT is its wireless and laptop can be placed in a variety of places. The dissadvantace is buying a cheap one is frought with difficulties.
the price for a genuine one will be in the £20 plus region Beware of cheap ones about £10 they have been reported not to work

Vgate iCar Pro Bluetooth 4.0 from ebay​

Ive used this guy in porthcawl for this and other parts

Bluetooth 4.0 Vgate iCar Pro BIMMERCODE Coding For BMW IOS Android OBD2 | eBay

VGATE ICAR PRO BLUETOOTH 4.0. The Vgate iCar Pro provides almost any Bluetooth Low Energy (BLE) enabled device the hardware needed to read and delete faults from most cars made within the last 20 years.

www.ebay.co.uk

Fits Fiat Lancia YELLOW OBD Lead Cable Adaptor 3 CAN For use with MultiECUScan | eBay

Yellow adapter cable for use with MultiEcuScan / FiatEcuScan. This is adapter 3, CAN BUS.

www.ebay.co.uk

 

[Fredastaire]

It's also worth mentioning that it is known that vans that have low mileage and spend time static in storage that mice / rodents get in to the air filter to chew and nest in the paper air filter element, any debris first gets sucked in to the air flow sensor. Worth a check as it's only 4 screws to lift the filter box lid off.
Rodents are also known to chew the air vacuum pipes on the turbo control system.
You would still need v32 software though from a Fiat main dealer.

 

[ClareJ]

It's also worth mentioning that it is known that vans that have low mileage and spend time static in storage that mice / rodents get in to the air filter to chew and nest in the paper air filter element, any debris first gets sucked in to the air flow sensor. Worth a check as it's only 4 screws to lift the filter box lid off.
Rodents are also known to chew the air vacuum pipes on the turbo control system.
You would still need v32 software though from a Fiat main dealer.

This is interesting, when I first took it in they found a mouse in the air filter and replaced it, the error occurred again and they then replaced the sensor. However error appeared again within 24hrs.
is it worth me getting the latest software before anything else or the MES?

 

[Fredastaire]

My thoughts would be to buy the MES (which will enable you to identify which software is installed), then find someone with a endoscope camera who can thread it through the inlet pipe from after the MAF, ie remove the MAF, maybe you have filter debris sucked in to the throttle which is internally hidden inside the LP EGR unit.
.
The MES is the only way forward to interrogate and know what is happening with the devices.

 

[Baz in Kent]

Hi Baz,

did you replace the parts being recommended and has that fixed your problem?

thanjs

I had all the parts recommended in Fiat’s service bulletin replaced at their expense (see other forum). Easy for me to say but I wouldn’t take no for an answer and would threaten press, social media etc, if you’re on Twitter I’d post your complaint on their accounts as this gets it public.

It took too long but I got there in the end and my repair now has a parts & labour warranty, what I don’t know is whether this is a long-term fix (as claimed by Fiat) hence monitoring with MES as mentioned by @FRED and why I’m keen to have other peoples’ data.

 

[Fredastaire]

@ClareJ ...so....there could still be mouse or rat bodies in the pipeworks?

 

[theoneandonly]

This is interesting, when I first took it in they found a mouse in the air filter and replaced it, the error occurred again and they then replaced the sensor. However error appeared again within 24hrs.
is it worth me getting the latest software before anything else or the MES?

MES first.
was it a Fiat professional dealer or back street without correct software?
When certain adjustments /sensors changed they need to be "introduced" to the ecu and new values learned to be used by the ecu. F7 adjustments in MES, you will then be able to delete the code.
(this week) 2 members have resolved most of their issues/ made dramatic improvements just buy following this advice.

 

[Baz in Kent]

This is interesting, when I first took it in they found a mouse in the air filter and replaced it, the error occurred again and they then replaced the sensor. However error appeared again within 24hrs.
is it worth me getting the latest software before anything else or the MES?

I missed that you have a different DTC code so my fix doesn’t apply, sorry.

 

[theoneandonly]

@ClareJ
Have you been able to move forward
Eg have you got MES Sorted
Any joy with rodents?

 

[markg6177]

This is interesting, when I first took it in they found a mouse in the air filter and replaced it, the error occurred again and they then replaced the sensor. However error appeared again within 24hrs.
is it worth me getting the latest software before anything else or the MES?

Hi Clare, I have a 2019 motor home with only 9k on the clock. Suspect engine failure. Still on going for months now. It was serviced 100 miles before this suspected engine failure, and they too found a dead mouse in the same place. Did you get any further with your situation?
any advice would be much appreciate.
Thanks Mark