EVs

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EVs

The cars, mostly Tesla, with electric door releases, do also have a manual release, at least for the front doors. Owners get trapped because they don't know about it. The salesman does not tell them, and no-one reads the handbook, unless it is about the trivial features. The handbook of course is on the car's media screen, no physical book, so can only be read while sitting in the car. That's a deterrent to reading it.
That’s a bit like the smart tvs we put in the cabins…download manual to screen, yes but how do we get the tv to connect to Wi-Fi, is it described, perhaps, in the manual, which we need to download to screen!
Took a good hour or so to figure out you have to tune tv into programmes and districts first!
 
Usual media hype, just about every manufacturer has had a car ready to go up in flames.
And the petrol diesel cars all have similar electronic locking now, when was the last time you had to push the snib down to lock a car
James Mays Ferrari. the 456 was a burner.
I’ve never been locked in one, to be fair to all, yes, anything electronic/electrical can fault and lock, look at the scare stories about folk being submerged and the cars central locking and windows trapping people in their cars. It’s just the speed and intensity of EV battery fires and the environmental disaster that they are. There’s a lot of greenwashing about EVs and by ‘abstraction’ I meant that their ecological impact is in sourcing the raw materials, both ecological and ethical, and disposal…it’s as far removed from the EV as possible, the generation of electricity is more an abstraction than oil/gas/coal/wood
But you could get locked in one....

That Rimac car hammond trashed on top gear and its subsequent fire does show the problem. I cant see an affordable way of overcomingthis. SUrely will be one one day but it may involve auto disconnection of every single power cell in a collision. Resetting would be fun!
 
James Mays Ferrari. the 456 was a burner.

But you could get locked in one....

That Rimac car hammond trashed on top gear and its subsequent fire does show the problem. I cant see an affordable way of overcomingthis. SUrely will be one one day but it may involve auto disconnection of every single power cell in a collision. Resetting would be fun!
That’s the weird thing about cars/vans/trucks/bikes/scooters, everything else is made ‘fail to safe’. Perhaps there needs to be another Nader, and god help, another tragedy until something is done.
 
There was a quote that the best thing humans can do to save the environment was to kill themselves. Everything we do has some environmental group up in arms.

The EVs solve the big city problems, and not so relevant for those that dont live or travel in a city. Most towns wont see a difference, even more so as they've effectively wiped out most of the heavy industry. They have their place, just not ready to go everywhere yet.
Totally agree with this. They’ve got their place, but they’re not the answer to everything and certainly don’t tick the boxes for everyone
 
The problem with the EVs are the batteries. And the problem with the batteries is because they are Li-Ion, which is a cheap, crap technology. And yes, it's cheap. Don't look at the prices of the batteries given by the car manufacturers. Look at the price of the single cell.

Luckily it's getting better, but if will take years before the lithium lobby will allow use of other technologies. Companies invested lots of money in lithium mining and transformation, then in cells production. They won't quit it quickly and without the fight :(

Just looking at the usage security, lithium itself isn't that bad. There are other lithium technologies that are much, much more safer than Li-Ion. That do not have such severe usage / (dis)charging limitations. For example the LTO. Doesn't need heating or cooling during usage. Even in low sub-zero temperatures. And the most important, doesn't explode when phisically damaged :) LiFeYPo4 technology is similar.

Li-Ion can take up to 500 charging cycles, lead-acid around 800, LiFePo4 up to 2000 (LiFeYPo4 probably same, can't remember). LTO - 20000 :)

Safe charging current: Li-Ion: 0,5C, lead-acid: 0,1C, LTO: 10C.

I have 200 Ah LTO leisure batteries in the Ducato. I could drew up to 2000 A out of each one. In theory, I don't need that, so the BMS is set to 200A.
 
The OP is being highly disingenuous as usual.

The article says nothing about people being locked in their cars, that being said for the last 30 years or so most cars have had "deadlocks" where the interior handles will not work if the car is locked from the outside.

The article basically says that with a massive increase in electric cars, fire services have now introduced a training course to teach firefighters how to tackle electric car fires with the expectation that as more electric cars are used there is also likely to be an increase in the number of fires.

It also says
In 2022-23 fire services across England recorded more than 19,000 vehicle fires in total, of which 11,252 started accidentally.
When the BBC asked every fire service in the UK how many EV fires they had dealt with in the past three years, none could provide a reliable answer because they do not distinguish them from other types of vehicle fires.
Instead, some fire services, such as those in Norfolk, Essex, Surrey, Derbyshire and Kent, ran text searches for any reference to the word "electric" in their vehicle fire records.
The results of those text searches show there were 59 electric vehicle fire references in 2022-23 across England - up from 30 the previous year.
So 11k accidental car fires in 2022-2023, yet when looking into the numbers combined Norfolk, Essex, Derbyshire and Kent could only find 59 electric car fires for the same period I get that this is not the whole country as per the 11k figure, but I don't think that the number across the whole country would probably break 500 electric car fires, versus 11K in total that were not deliberately started.

Bearing in mind all of the above, there is just as much likelihood of burning to death in an ICE car as there is an electric car, but the likelihood of burning to death in ICE car goes is massively more likely if you don't own or drive an electric car.

Lets face it any car now is highly sophisticated and full of electronics, what ever sparks a fire in an electric car is equally likely to spark a fire in a Petrol car. Batteries can catch fire while charging, cars catch fire while refueling.
Batteries can catch fire while discharging as you drive, petrol can catch fire leaking out of a poorly maintained fuel pipe and leaking onto a hot exhaust.

As the Green Vanper pointed out, this is typical media BS to make a mountain out of a molehill.
in this case fire fighters start a new training course to tackle electric car fires now there are many more of them on the roads, we'll spin it as "fire fighters expect an increase in electric car fires" with no context.
 
I agree with what you say re EVs Andy, my only caveat would be ICE fires usually start around the engine compartment whereas electrical fires whether in EV or ICE vehicles tend to to quickly involve choking acrid fumes from the plastic sheathing burning from the wiring inside the vehicle. Much in the way furniture regulations had to change due to smoke inhalation in house fires.
Some years ago I was happily driving at around 60mph in my Iveco Daily work van when the extension lead shorted on the charger to my commercial starter/jumper pack quickly filling the cab with fumes, luckily I was able to get off to a side road and open the door to throw the jump pack on the road, much to the surprise of other motorists:ROFLMAO:.
Even more lucky the starter pack survived the impact though bruised and battered, I still use it today, it is a 24/12 volt one containing two high powered 12 volt batteries and have even used it with a professional outdoor MIG welder as the power supply. It is an American one that new at the time would have cost in the region of £600, I was lucky to pick it up with a 12/24 volt SIP 500amp starter booster mains charger at auction for £22 the pair, the SIP one just needed a clean and new fuse, over the years I replaced the batteries in the jump pack also.:)
 

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I’ve never been locked in one, to be fair to all, yes, anything electronic/electrical can fault and lock, look at the scare stories about folk being submerged and the cars central locking and windows trapping people in their cars.
Me neither but I locked my wife in the car at a garage when I went to pay the fuel bill. Never again!

How!

Fiats fault 1000% and it is still present to this day.

When I got my 500X 2015 then to engage the deadlocks you had to press the remote fob lock button twice. When using the key less entry then to lock the door you only needed to press the door handle's little button.

After/during it's 1st service some software updates were done. Now unbeknown to me (and never advised and neither did the garage know or have info the applicable service bulletin) when your keyless entry is enabled pressing the door handle button automatically engages the deadlocks. Out of habit and mostly driving alone it was natural instinct to close the door and press the button. Oooops!

Had a fire occurred then the occupants could/would have fried!

Needless to say I've turned keyless entry off!
 
I read that BBC article and the engineer in me (and having been involved in safety and standards) am wondering why these battery packs do not have inbuilt mechanisms, ducting, whatever to allow either onboard dedicated extinguishers or external connect points to allow extinguishing agents to be injected into the battery cells.

Meanwhile the makes go to all the efforts with water cooling/heating jackets to extend battery performance/range but don't give any REAL consideration to safety and fire control.
 
Like many oxidising elements, the issues around lithium, and to some extent cobalt, is that, once the fire has started, ignition, it becomes self sustaining.
 
Me neither but I locked my wife in the car at a garage when I went to pay the fuel bill. Never again!
I once locked my wife in the basement of my first house (by accident I add) on my way to work. She had to escape via the lower back door and go to neighbours house. It was the days well before mobile phones (though I still don't have one) and she rang me when I had got to work, she was not a happy bunny!;)
 
Like many oxidising elements, the issues around lithium, and to some extent cobalt, is that, once the fire has started, ignition, it becomes self sustaining.
Yes! That said the Fire Brigade pointed out that access to closed / essentially battery packs is a huge problem reducing their ability to properly tackle them in the first place.
 
I agree with what you say re EVs Andy, my only caveat would be ICE fires usually start around the engine compartment whereas electrical fires whether in EV or ICE vehicles tend to to quickly involve choking acrid fumes from the plastic sheathing burning from the wiring inside the vehicle.
true but as eluded to by the article the battery tends to be in its own compartment outside of the cabin of the car and so is the motor and the control circuitry for the motor and battery, so really the the nature of the fit was far as the occupants are concerned are much the same.

There are few fires where the driver is at any immediate risk of death or serious injury as most people would manage to stop and get out before it properly takes hold
 
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