General ESP - do all Panda 4x4s have it ?

[theshootist]

I read recently that ALL Panda 4x4s have it ?

I understand that it helps with a hill start but cannot remember ever noticing mine activating - that said, I live in the very flat Fens !

How do I know if I have it fitted ?

 

[babbo_umbro]

I read recently that ALL Panda 4x4s have it ?

I understand that it helps with a hill start but cannot remember ever noticing mine activating - that said, I live in the very flat Fens !

How do I know if I have it fitted ?

Find a hill. It's quite handy, by the way.

 

[oyumurtaci]

Wait, are we talking about Electronic Stability Program (ESP - for not driving into a ditch in the rain), Hill Holder (HH - for, well, hill starts), or Traction Control (TC - for, well, better traction during hill starts)? They're all technically components of the ESP software and make use of the same hardware and ABS/wheel speed sensors, but serve different functions.

 

[theshootist]

Hill holder is part of the ESP ?

 

[babbo_umbro]

I assumed they were all part of the same function.

 

[oyumurtaci]

Basically they're all part of the massive system that has control over input from wheel speed sensors and output as brake force. The wheel speed sensors provide information to the system allowing the system to compare that information with the gearbox output shaft speed sensor. If there is a mismatch, corresponding brakes are applied (or released) to correct for it all. In the case of hill holders, there is a small fluid level that "completes" a circuit above 6 degrees of incline. The basic operation of it is that the completion of that circuit inputs a request to the computer to check wheel and gearbox speed. If both are equal to zero, the rear brakes are applied to maintain that "0" for 3 seconds. If during this application, throttle input and clutch position indicate the intent to move, the operation is cancelled. It's all a very basic "IF/AND/OR/THEN" set of operations.

The same basic logic applies to ESP (which also takes into account things like steering input) and TC (which in 2wd cars only looks for a discrepancy between driven wheels and undriven wheels and cutting throttle/applying brakes to equalize them).

 

[WoollyPanda]

WHEN it works, I find the Hill Hold works very well, especially as I have the Duologic gearbox. BUT I find that its not sensitive enough. I find I have to use the (thankfully manual) handbrake a lot as it rolls back on gradients which the system deams not steep enough to activate the HH.

 

[theshootist]

I found a hill.............










And I do have ESP :slayer:

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

Hill Holder only works on a gradient of 6% or more - so most likely if its not working, the hill is not steep enough. (interestingly it also works where reversing up a hill)

Another three letter acronym as part of the ESP package on the 4x4 is MSR - which prevents wheel lock-up on a slippery surface if you change down a gear too soon (ie where the engine braking effect would be too much)

 

[babbo_umbro]

Hill Holder only works on a gradient of 6% or more - so most likely if its not working, the hill is not steep enough. (interestingly it also works where reversing up a hill)

Another three letter acronym as part of the ESP package on the 4x4 is MSR - which prevents wheel lock-up on a slippery surface if you change down a gear too soon (ie where the engine braking effect would be too much)

MSR = Maybe Shouldn't Reverse?

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

I like Maybe Shouldn't Reverse...

But in fact its Motor Schleppmoment Regelung - or engine braking regulator. If changing down too soon on a low-grip surface might lead to the excess engine braking looking the wheels, MSR actually raises the revs for a moment to prevent this happening.

 

[Mark Hurst]

MSR actually raises the revs for a moment to prevent this happening.

I wish it would do this on changing up - I'm still finding it hard getting used to the Cross when changing up from 1-->2 (and to a lesser extent 2-->3).

 

[R1NGA]

I wish it would do this on changing up - I'm still finding it hard getting used to the Cross when changing up from 1-->2 (and to a lesser extent 2-->3).

Anyone keen on designing an Anti-Lag system for the TA - that would fix it

 

[gar074]

Anyone keen on designing an Anti-Lag system for the TA - that would fix it

Someone do this, please. The power lag between gear changes is glacial.