Technical Error code P0657-16 , Will not start

[Lot46310]

Hi,
I have a Ducato 2018, 2.3 Multijet 2.
It will not start, dashboard was showing a fuel filter problem, which I changed.
I bought MES and although mine is a type 250 , it actually has the Marelli 9DF EOBD, rather than the Bosch, which is shown.

Apparently error code P 0657-16 requires a sensor code check, but which one (s) Any ideas please?

 

[the green vanper]

Hello,

The x250 was produced until 2014. Then they changed the code to x290 with the facelifting. I doubt that converter kept the chassis-cab for four years.

And yes, FIAT is messing with the coding, as they kept the VIN being ZFA250

What is the EUR norm of the engine?

For the faults, was the battery disconnected? Have you respected the procedure from the owner's manual?

I'd also check if there isn't a reset procedure by made by Rapido.

What lead to those errors?

Is the starting battery in good health?

 

[Lot46310]

Hi,
The battery was connected and is in perfect health, I keep it charged with a smart charger,.
The van will not start after being unused for around 8 to 10 weeks.

 

[the green vanper]

Is the engine EUR 5 or EUR 6?

 

[Lot46310]

I believe it's Euro 6

 

[the green vanper]

The T09 is the only one 50A relay in the junction unit, so it will be hard to swap it. But the relays are not expensive if you won't be sure about it.

I'd also check the usual things for the Ducato: body to engine earth, battery negitive to body.

 

[Lot46310]

Great help, I will give this a try, when it stops raining!!

 

[the green vanper]

The earths location attached.

The earth cables of the Ducato tend to rot. No idea if they modified it since the x250, but I assume not. They rot on the inside, so it is difficult to see at first sight.

I've replaced the earth straps in my and my GF's daily cars with a good quality copper welding wire. And will to the same in the Ducato probably this year (althought the connectors are a little bit more complex)

 

[Lot46310]

Once again, thankyou

 

[Anthony489]

Hi

The error code suggests a problem with the Engine Control Unit (ECU). The suffix -16 indicates a voltage below threshold, i.e. it is being starved of enough power.

It's possible if the van has been standing for a while that you have tarnish/corrosion at the contacts of one or more fuses, giving a high resistance connection and voltage drop. I suggest you start by taking a look at Fuses F17 and F22 in the engine compartment fuse box. Both these supply power to the ECU. Sometimes, just removing and replacing a fuse a few times will clear away light corrosion. If you see blackening or green corrosion, there may be a more serious corrosion problem in the fuse box due to damp. Check also the main injection relay T09, you should be able to hear/feel it click when you turn the ignition key.

Here are my notes about the ECU supply, they apply to earlier models but will be a guide:

The power supply to the ECU (M010) starts at the Battery B099 and flows via the 150 Amp Maxi Fuse F70 to Pin 1 of the engine compartment Junction Unit (and Fuse Box) B001. This is a vital high current connection with a thick cable. Here it supplies F01, F02, F05, F18 plus many other fuses. It also supplies the contacts of the main injection Relay T09. From here, current flows via Fuse F17 to pin H2 of ECU connector C and via Fuse F22 to pin H1 of ECU connector A

The coil of Relay T09 receives a direct battery power supply via the line protected by Fuse F18 in B001. The relay is energised by an (earth) control signal from pin G1 of ECU connector B

Int/A Power from the ignition switch H001 enters the dashboard junction unit/fuse box B002 via Pin 1 of Connector B. Int/A power is only present when the ignition is on, it switches off during cranking to relieve unnecessary electrical load. Here it supplies the coils of dashboard Relays T11 and T12 which run a variety of non-critical loads like mirror demisters, cigar lighter etc. It also feeds Fuse F31 (7.5 Amp), which supplies the coils of engine compartment Relays T08, T17 and T19, plus Body Computer M001 Pin 27.

 

[Communicator]

View attachment 459253

The T09 is the only one 50A relay in the junction unit, so it will be hard to swap it. But the relays are not expensive if you won't be sure about it.

View attachment 459254

I'd also check the usual things for the Ducato: body to engine earth, battery negitive to body.

I beg to differ with the location and utilisation of the 50A relay. The location for which is normally the position designated T07 in the fusebox layout diagram above. On my much earlier x244 this location is used for a cooling fan. The designation T09 appears to be reserved for the main injection relay. The location of this relay above fuse F17 in the layout diagram is only capable of accepting a four pin micro automotive relay. However I have seen advertisements for such relays with a 40A rating.
If I am wrong then I apologise, but I would like to know.

 

[the green vanper]

@Anthony489, @Communicator in post #8 I've uploaded the eLearn documentation for the proper van model, please do not mess in OP's head indicating other relays and connectors from earlier vans.

 

[Lot46310]

Thanks Guys
I will give the fuses a good examination,

I really appreciate the advice. I am new to this as the van has behaved itself since new in January 2019.

Living in a remote spot in rural France makes it more essential to be able to tackle problems.

Merci beaucoup

 

[Lot46310]

I have checked fuses F17 and F22, no corrosion everything bright and shiny.
Moving to relay T09, no click and no vibration when ignition turned on ( just ignition on, not cranking engine)

Excuse my ignorance but does this relay just pull out like a fuse?
I tried it gently, but I dont want to apply too much pressure.
I assume that replacing the relay would be a good next step?

 

[the green vanper]

I have checked fuses F17 and F22, no corrosion everything bright and shiny.
Moving to relay T09, no click and no vibration when ignition turned on ( just ignition on, not cranking engine)

Excuse my ignorance but does this relay just pull out like a fuse?
I tried it gently, but I dont want to apply too much pressure.
I assume that replacing the relay would be a good next step?

Yes, you have to pull it out. Might need a little more force than the fuse though.

It looks more or less like that on the bottom:

It has 4 or 5 terminals, so it will hold more firmly and need more force to be taken out.

Before replacing the relay I'd check if there is voltage and continuity as described in the troubleshooting guide (steps 2, 3, 4).

Attached the whole eLearn doc on the engine management in the diesel engines.

 

[the green vanper]

@Anthony489, @Communicator in post #8 I've uploaded the eLearn documentation for the proper van model, please do not mess in OP's head indicating other relays and connectors from earlier vans.

@Anthony489, @Communicator sorry, I thought that I've uploaded both documents to the thread yesterday, but it was only one of them

 

[the green vanper]

I'm trying to find the proper part number to be sure what relay it should be.

There are 39 relays in the x290

Luckily only three of them are rated 50 A.

For the EUR 5 version of the 2,3 engine the part number is 11130287. I have no access to the ePER for EUR 6. However this being a simple electric device, I assume it has not been changed.

11130287 en vente - | eBay

Trouvez 11130287 en vente parmi une grande sélection de sur eBay. La livraison est rapide.

www.ebay.fr

 

[Communicator]

@Anthony489, @Communicator sorry, I thought that I've uploaded both documents to the thread yesterday, but it was only one of them

Appology accepted. "He who makes no mistakes makes (does) nothing."
Thanks for the eLearn printout.
I note that T09 (Main Injection), T10 (Fuel Lift Pump), and T20 (Fuel Heater) are all rated at 30A. In my experience Fiat OEM 30A relays are coloured red. The part number on one that I have beside me is 4652022, but that could have been superseded.

 

[the green vanper]

I note that T09 (Main Injection), T10 (Fuel Lift Pump), and T20 (Fuel Heater) are all rated at 30A. In my experience Fiat OEM 30A relays are coloured red. The part number on one that I have beside me is 4652022, but that could have been superseded.

Yes, yes. It's the 30 A relay, it should be red:

55502-020 APPARATUS AND ELECTRIC CONTROLS INTERCONNECTION AND REMOTE CONTROL SWITCH 11129685 RELAY 30A RED 2 4 CC2.0+ECOCF5 1

But can't be sure if it's the correct one. There are a couple of relays in the Injection category, but they don't seem to be the one. This one is in the remote control switch section.

So, it'd be the best to read out the number from the OP's van. Or take it to a shop and find the correct one (rating + pinout).

Pity the forum ePER does not cover the newer models.

 

[Communicator]

Yes, yes. It's the 30 A relay, it should be red:

55502-020 APPARATUS AND ELECTRIC CONTROLS INTERCONNECTION AND REMOTE CONTROL SWITCH 11129685 RELAY 30A RED 2 4 CC2.0+ECOCF5 1

But can't be sure if it's the correct one. There are a couple of relays in the Injection category, but they don't seem to be the one. This one is in the remote control switch section.

So, it'd be the best to read out the number from the OP's van. Or take it to a shop and find the correct one (rating + pinout).

Pity the forum ePER does not cover the newer models.

The pinout of micro automotive relays is standard, with the only two variations being 4 pin (SPNO), and 5 pin (SPCO).
What is most important is that the relay is fitted with surge supressing resistor in parallel with the winding. This is needed to suppress back emf (electro motive force), when the coil is de-energised. This back emf can cause damage to electronic driver circuits, in particular the ECU. The alternative of a diode in parallel with the coil is not suitable, as Fiat do not adhere to the Bosch convention of having coil terminal 86 positive.
An advertisement for a used relay may be found here.