Technical EPS electric power steering faults

[MSH1]

Hello all.
I am not a mechanic but I love my fiat punto 188 MK2 (ZFA5000) 2002.
This car has a city button for lighter power steering. When you press the city button, a light comes on the dashboard that says CITY, and the steering becomes lighter.

PROBLEM (S):

Everyone once in a while when it rains the power steering light (red steering wheel) turns on, and then it goes away on its own. I know this is intermittent , not my biggest issue, just adding for context.

Another piece of information for context is that sometimes the gearbox light turns on and the brake clicks. Again only after heavy rain. I have learned this is due to corrosion located at the rear light cluster connection pin. The seal isn’t great so water might get through. Once the corrosion on the final connector pin of the light cluster is removed , the light goes away and brake stops clicking.


MAIN ISSUE:
Beginning yesterday, after turning the car on, the city light began flickering on the dashboard - affecting steering sensitivity.
When I long press and hold down the city button , the light goes away and the gearbox light (as above) flashes. This began after a hail storm.


I have a VAGCOM/KKL cable with switches , and a ELM 337 tool from eBay,
I use the multiecu scan tool normally, but can’t make it work for the power steering light, I don’t know how to make it work .
I get a message which says ELM327/ODBKey Interface or can’t find COM3.

I just want the light to stop and the problem to go away.

My non-mechanic mind thinks an electrical glitch maybe an earth problem (not something I can verify but just a feeling I have based on the erratic nature of the light).

Please can you guide me and help me.

 

[koalar]

You really need to post on in the Punto section

Although both have similar electric power steering with the city button, they are in fact different

The Punto for example has relays on the motor control board which were problematic, the panda does not

Worth checking the alternator belt for slipping, often worse when the roads are wet

 

[MSH1]

You really need to post on in the Punto section

Although both have similar electric power steering with the city button, they are in fact different

The Punto for example has relays on the motor control board which were problematic, the panda does not

Worth checking the alternator belt for slipping, often worse when the roads are wet

Hello! I didn't realise. Thank you!

 

[MSH1]

Hello! I didn't realise. Thank you!

It seems like there aren't many people with my fault. I am quite upset about the fault i've got. I can't afford to go the garage, as they will probably guess as much as I am currently doing.

 

[Luisc]

Hi great guide ,in my case is a bit weird ,seems like a binding Only on stopped position ,never in moving no lights or codes( and 1 year old battery) ,just a resistance in moving ocasionaly and happens most on the first starts ,i had other steering issues(Angle sensor) and this is is a refurbished unit could it be a mechanical binding or any clues ? Also it does a strange noise like cluncking noise when turning sharp turns in wet driving ONLY from the chassi , i suspect Control arm ball joint . Best regards

 

[koalar]

Hi great guide ,in my case is a bit weird ,seems like a binding Only on stopped position ,never in moving no lights or codes( and 1 year old battery) ,just a resistance in moving ocasionaly and happens most on the first starts ,i had other steering issues(Angle sensor) and this is is a refurbished unit could it be a mechanical binding or any clues ? Also it does a strange noise like cluncking noise when turning sharp turns in wet driving ONLY from the chassi , i suspect Control arm ball joint . Best regards

Yes but

The steering assistant is greatest at slow speeds

Binding rack, track rod ends, top mounts and is normally fine at car parking speeds and worse at higher speeds

Is the problem still there in city mode

Worth sorting second problem first, the clunking, It maybe connected, ball joints normally outlast the the rear rubber bush, get someone to move the steering wheel left and right while observing the rear over the control arm for vertical movement

 

[Luisc]

Yes but

The steering assistant is greatest at slow speeds

Binding rack, track rod ends, top mounts and is normally fine at car parking speeds and worse at higher speeds

Is the problem still there in city mode

Worth sorting second problem first, the clunking, It maybe connected, ball joints normally outlast the the rear rubber bush, get someone to move the steering wheel left and right while observing the rear over the control arm for vertical movement

There is no steering mode only sport , that put the steering harder , but really seems a mechanical binding rather than electric.i Will check it with someone , top mounts are new, i suspect Control arms since the tie rods are not seized

 

[Luisc]

Yes but

The steering assistant is greatest at slow speeds

Binding rack, track rod ends, top mounts and is normally fine at car parking speeds and worse at higher speeds

Is the problem still there in city mode

Worth sorting second problem first, the clunking, It maybe connected, ball joints normally outlast the the rear rubber bush, get someone to move the steering wheel left and right while observing the rear over the control arm for vertical movement

Worth mention that it only does that on Parked (dry steering) and with high friction pavement (never on garage floor) .best regards

 

[Delux]

Hi Pandistas, I have an intermittent red steering fault that appears when slowing from speed to turn either left or right. I followed the advice here and replaced the battery and also thoroughly cleaned the contacts on the battery negative after removing the earth connections.

I've done the lock to lock turn on gravel, as well as checked voltages off & running - all good. Also, the car feels like it's steering slightly to the left as I need to steer to the right about 5-10 degrees to keep it going straight (I recently had the wheel alignment done so it can't be that). With City mode engaged it doesn't seem to fail but I still need to steer to the right about 5-10 degrees to keep it going straight as the steering feels sloppy and I don't like driving with that mode engaged.

On start up there is a very short belt squeal so I suspect I may need to tighten the alternator belt but I have AC - it's there an adjuster somwhere I can use?

 

[koalar]

No adjustment on cars with Aircon, the tensioner is spring loaded

Belt squeak needs sorting as it probably connected to the steering light

Need to flick the belt off and turn the pulleys by hand when cold, sounds like one of the bearings has dried up or the belt has started to disintegrate,

Is the car pulling to one side or is the steering wheel not central or both

Was it doing it before the wheel alignment

Are the tyre pressures correct

 

[Delux]

No adjustment on cars with Aircon, the tensioner is spring loaded

Belt squeak needs sorting as it probably connected to the steering light

Need to flick the belt off and turn the pulleys by hand when cold, sounds like one of the bearings has dried up or the belt has started to disintegrate,

Is the car pulling to one side or is the steering wheel not central or both

Was it doing it before the wheel alignment

Are the tyre pressures correct

Ok thanks @koalar - could it be the tensioner is failing then?

The steering is centered when stationery, but pulling to the left while driving. Tyres are new and pressures good.

 

[koalar]

Was this more noticeable after the alignment

 

[koalar]

Ok thanks @koalar - could it be the tensioner is failing then?

Belt
Tensioner
Alternator

Which is why it's best to flick the belt off and diagnose rather than taking pot luck

 

[RFollia]

Is it random, totally random is rare
Worse at the begining of the journey
Worse on hot or cold days
Worse on full lock in one direction
Worse at slow roads or fast roads

We know it's not the battery
Is it worse, same or better after the battery change
Did you unbolt these and clean the contacts
View attachment 443261



Have you checked the contacts on the fuse for corrosion and under the nut A is clean and nipped up

View attachment 443260

Have you cleaned this terminal
View attachment 443259
It's on the A pillar

Do you have access to diagnostic software that can connect to the steering module


On loose ground, sand, grass, gravel or similar, Raise the revs to over 2000 RPM, move the steering full lock quickly left to right a few times, press the city mode on and off a few times

So, after 1 year I think I have seen the light...
To sum up
No Power steering, light always on. Sometimes when pacing (around 5 mph), EPS light flickered and worked
Also, when holding vehicle standstill on an incline, idling, light went out and EPS resumed working.
Bumps or outside temperature did not affect.
Only one code present C1205 speed sensor intermittent. Even deleting this code and starting vehicle, being standstill, the dreaded relay "click" under dashboard could be heard, EPS light lit up and presto, no EPS.
Battery was healthy, 12,7v after waiting all night, alt was new from last year
Sometimes when wiggling the negative leads in a standstill, EPS light extinguished.
What I have done (besides turning almost crazy)

Removed all earth leads from battery terminal, cleaned them with contact cleaner and 100 grit sandpaper sodden with contact cleaner.

Removed battery, battery tray and followed the earth lead until gearbox. No continuity. So removed lead, cleaned everything, checked no resistance, refitted everything and test drove vehicle.
Ignition on, no EPS light-good
Cranking-no EPS light-good
Engine started- light was on after 5 seconds and no EPS-bad!
Reversed- no light. Braked, no light and was assistance
advance at a slow pace-no light and EPS worked.
Accelerated until 10 mpd-light on-bad!
Drove for 2 miles- no eps, light on
Arrived to a STOP signal. Braked, held the vehicle. no light and EPS worked.
2 miles back. light on and no EPS-BAD

Began thinking of all the bad words I could imagine. Could it be the ABS ECU/pump? Somebody had solved the issue by exchanging the module.
Began reading this thread from the 1st post and in page 2 I saw the fuse box issue. That's why I quote the post here
Disconnected battery. Undid (was seized) the nut. Turned with the bolt, at first thought I had wrecked fuse box....
Finally managed to remove nut. There was some electrical corrossion in the winged part. The terminal was not as new but looked fine.
All them were well cleaned and the winged part of the nut needed polishing.
Started vehicle and... no light! EPS worked!

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!
Best regards

 

[A3jeroen]

Thank you for not giving up!

gr J

 

[RFollia]

Hi all.
Guess what?
Did not tell SWMBO anything about the fix and hope the "surprise effect" of "oh, EPS works", but how wrong it was. Sunday morning, there it was, waiting for me, big, huge red steerint wheel light gleaming for me.
I mean, key on engine off, no light.
Start the car, no light. count 3,2,1.. presto!
Clear code. C1205 as usual
Start the car, don't move it. No light, 3,2,1... light!
I mean, if there is "wheel speed sensor intermittent signal" error , this error should not happen with vehicle stationary..
And, when pacing at 3-5 mph (EPS light gleaming), light goes out if I step on the brake pedal, not braking, just as much so as to activate brake lights, everything goes back to normal.
Car stationary on a flat surface-> EPS light on.
The same but keeping pedal depressed-> no light and EPS works

So did the usual route, 9 miles back and forth. No EPS and light on all the way.
But just before arriving home we got a red traffic light in uphill and had to wait for almost 1 minute, holding the vehicle depressing brake pedal. Guess what? Light out, EPS came back and no more EPS light for the rest of the journey whatever the speed (it was a looong 1,2 mile straight line)

Another thing is check C020 earth point in right wheelarch.
Or maybe M001 computer is faulty. or whatever

I guess componene K084 in diagram (speed sensor I guess) here

Complete power steering loss | FIAT Panda (Mk3)

My power steering fault light came on and I lost all steering assistance just as I was negotiating a sweeping left hand bend. I tried switching off for a few minutes but the light comes back on almost straight away, I have cleared the earth lead, checked battery voltage and alternator is...

www.fiatforum.com

is not applicable as I have ABS.
Some people claim to have cured the problem changing the ABS pump/module
Should I change the ABS module /pump? I've found one secondhand at 40 euro. But swapping module and bleeding, all this effort to have the light again, don't know...

 

[A3jeroen]

Forgot (and too lazy to check) but did you change the brakeswitch?

gr J

 

[koalar]

So did the usual route, 9 miles back and forth. No EPS and light on all the way.
But just before arriving home we got a red traffic light in uphill and had to wait for almost 1 minute, holding the vehicle depressing brake pedal. Guess what? Light out, EPS came back and no more EPS light for the rest of the journey whatever the speed (it was a looong 1,2 mile straight line

Sound like the steering error tripped while

The road wheels were not turning
The steering wheel was not being moved
There was the added load from the brake lights

Have you substituted a known good battery

Clear code. C1205 as usual

This error code is model specific

I have never come across this error on a panda

It means one thing on the Doblo and completely different on the Stilo

You have a scanner

Post the live data of the battery voltage as you do an cold start, here's mine

 

[RFollia]

The "fun" thing is everything began last year after an alternator change
Previously only were the usual light flickering on cold mornings and "city"mode did not work.
alt died (bearings), I was recovering from surgery so had to take it to workshop becaus could not do it myself.
2 days later C901 and C903 (I thik were these ones, don't remember). Workshop said "we have to rebuild EPS ECU" (when fiat workshop says no-no).
parcel was lost, nobody found our steering components. One month later, by miracle, the "rebuilt" (400 euro) EPS from a place I told them not to send it to, arrived.
And since then, the C1205 and my endless research.....
Or C1205 shows because "somebody" plugged something wrong in the wrong place? (somebody that workshop). Will not take the panda there never again
Oh before I forget, there is something weird. Of the 2 fuses (F24 and F87), one is missing and I think there is no provision for fuse as ther is no fuse holder. Have a pic of fuse box but not with this particular empty place. Will try to take another one tonight and upload it
How about at changing brake switch. Sooner or later all them fail (and in Land Rovers -Disco 2 with wabco ABS do plenty of weird things, don't ask me how I know...)

Should I replace the fuse, replace brake switch, replace ABS module, set fire to the car (this one better not as I then would be left only with land rovers, which are much worse), set fire to the ham-fisted workshop who changed the alt and billed 400 euro for the "rebuild", or all them at once?
This weekend I will monitor battery at startup. it is healthy, 12,7V, had not been replaced last year before or after the fault and nobody swapped it (because I mark them in a place I know just in case sme dishonest workshop performs a swap )
Best regards

 

[koalar]

This weekend I will monitor battery at startup. it is healthy, 12,7V,

Resting voltage has little bearing on the fault

Have you tried a known good battery

Post the graph of when it under the load of the starter