Technical Engine temperature on fiat ducato 2006 2.8l jtd

[tombstarship]

I hada heat temp gauge put on. During a long climb it has got to 105 degrees C. The thermastat guage showing just above norm. When should i start getting worried. I've heard fiat ducatos run hot. I shut down aircon and started up heater to keep temp from climbing higher

 

[bugsymike]

I hada heat temp gauge put on. During a long climb it has got to 105 degrees C. The thermastat guage showing just above norm. When should i start getting worried. I've heard fiat ducatos run hot. I shut down aircon and started up heater to keep temp from climbing higher

I have never hear of fitting an extra temp gauge fitting. What was the reason behind that.
I would check using a diagnostic tool and read the temp via that to see how it compares with the factory one.
Obviously you live in a hotter climate than here in UK, does the electric fans cut in?
If I was concerned about temp, firstly are you losing water? If not then the main thing to test is the radiator pressure cap, if it can hold it's pressure, usually around 1Bar which is just shy of 15psi (OK 14.7 to the pedantics) basically for every 1pound of pressure the water will boil at 1.5 degree Centigrade above normal boiling point at sea level, so a 1 Bar pressure cap in working order should prevent boiling the water until 122Degrees Centigrade.
The danger isn't so much hot water as hot gas/steam which can give airlocks and much,much higher temperature and subsequent damage to the engine.
This is why you must never undo the radiator cap on a hot engine as any water will instantly boil!!!
Personally I have run many Sofim 2.8 engine in Fiat's and Iveco's, and I would have said they generally run in the mid to high 80s Centigrade even when towing a 3.5 tonne trailer.
If everything else is spot on it may be worth running extra after market cooling fans with mechanical over ride as in certain sports cars etc. Or even a heavy duty radiator with more cooling tubes etc.
The other consideration is if you are high up in the mountains way above sea level then water can boil at a lower temperature.
Please feel free to question and check my maths as this was something I was taught around 54 years ago in college as an apprentice motor engineer and memory fades.

 

[tombstarship]

I lost a engine because radiator totally failed. With no water, the normal temp gauge in thermastat didnt work. Diesel mechanic recommended sensor on engine to avoid this happening again

 

[bugsymike]

I lost a engine because radiator totally failed. With no water, the normal temp gauge in thermastat didnt work. Diesel mechanic recommended sensor on engine to avoid this happening again

It can happen very quickly, a neighbour of mine with a nearly new Ford had a bottom hose clip just lose it's tension and the hose blew off scrapping the engine in less than a mile. It was one of those quick release type that they do a special tool to hold them apart as you change a hose, no reason for it to fail.

 

[Communicator]

I hada heat temp gauge put on. During a long climb it has got to 105 degrees C. The thermastat guage showing just above norm. When should i start getting worried. I've heard fiat ducatos run hot. I shut down aircon and started up heater to keep temp from climbing higher

See extract from Fiat eLearn below. I have highlighted the appropriate sentence in bold type. If 120C is the danger level, then perhaps the worrying point should be 110C, to allow a margin for error, and temperature overshoot.

The 2.8jtd has two temperature sensons adjacent to the thermostat. One sensor is connected to the ECU, and serves to control the electric fans as well as other parameters e.g. injection advance for cold engine. The second sensor which is the input for the temperature gauge, also contains a thermostatic switch for the engine over temperature warning light. The problem as I see it, is that there is no easy way of verifying the temperature at which the switch operates.

Engine coolant temperature gauge​ The engine coolant temperature reading is taken by means of a stepping motor operated by an electronic circuit with a clockwise direction of rotation with a scale that starts at "C" which corresponds to 50 degrees centrigrade and ends at "H" which is around 130 degrees centrigrade. The movement of the pointer in the red sector corresponds to a dangerous temperature of 120°C. With the ignition on the pointer shows the temperature reading according to the following logic: if T < 50 °C the pointer should be on the first scale reference. if T > 50 °C, the pointer should be positioned on the reference corresponding the temperature value measured.

 

[Communicator]

I have never hear of fitting an extra temp gauge fitting. What was the reason behind that.
I would check using a diagnostic tool and read the temp via that to see how it compares with the factory one.
Obviously you live in a hotter climate than here in UK, does the electric fans cut in?
If I was concerned about temp, firstly are you losing water? If not then the main thing to test is the radiator pressure cap, if it can hold it's pressure, usually around 1Bar which is just shy of 15psi (OK 14.7 to the pedantics) basically for every 1pound of pressure the water will boil at 1.5 degree Centigrade above normal boiling point at sea level, so a 1 Bar pressure cap in working order should prevent boiling the water until 122Degrees Centigrade.
The danger isn't so much hot water as hot gas/steam which can give airlocks and much,much higher temperature and subsequent damage to the engine.
This is why you must never undo the radiator cap on a hot engine as any water will instantly boil!!!
Personally I have run many Sofim 2.8 engine in Fiat's and Iveco's, and I would have said they generally run in the mid to high 80s Centigrade even when towing a 3.5 tonne trailer.
If everything else is spot on it may be worth running extra after market cooling fans with mechanical over ride as in certain sports cars etc. Or even a heavy duty radiator with more cooling tubes etc.
The other consideration is if you are high up in the mountains way above sea level then water can boil at a lower temperature.
Please feel free to question and check my maths as this was something I was taught around 54 years ago in college as an apprentice motor engineer and memory fades.

Water boils when its vapour pressure is equal to, or exceeds the pressure above the surface. With a pressurised cooling system the pressure at the water surface is governed by the header tank cap, so altitude should not affect the boiling point.
Although it was more than 54 years ago, I can still remember a physics lab demo where water in a glass globe was made to boil at room temperature, by pumping air out of the globe so as to create a partial vacuum. The vacuum pump was a manual device, and volunteers from the class were appointed to do the hard work.

 

[tombstarship]

See extract from Fiat eLearn below. I have highlighted the appropriate sentence in bold type. If 120C is the danger level, then perhaps the worrying point should be 110C, to allow a margin for error, and temperature overshoot.

The 2.8jtd has two temperature sensons adjacent to the thermostat. One sensor is connected to the ECU, and serves to control the electric fans as well as other parameters e.g. injection advance for cold engine. The second sensor which is the input for the temperature gauge, also contains a thermostatic switch for the engine over temperature warning light. The problem as I see it, is that there is no easy way of verifying the temperature at which the switch operates.

​ Engine coolant temperature gauge​ The engine coolant temperature reading is taken by means of a stepping motor operated by an electronic circuit with a clockwise direction of rotation with a scale that starts at "C" which corresponds to 50 degrees centrigrade and ends at "H" which is around 130 degrees centrigrade. The movement of the pointer in the red sector corresponds to a dangerous temperature of 120°C. With the ignition on the pointer shows the temperature reading according to the following logic: if T < 50 °C the pointer should be on the first scale reference. if T > 50 °C, the pointer should be positioned on the reference corresponding the temperature value measured.

 

[tombstarship]

Great. Just what i wanted to know. Many thanks

 

[bugsymike]

Water boils when its vapour pressure is equal to, or exceeds the pressure above the surface. With a pressurised cooling system the pressure at the water surface is governed by the header tank cap, so altitude should not affect the boiling point.
Although it was more than 54 years ago, I can still remember a physics lab demo where water in a glass globe was made to boil at room temperature, by pumping air out of the globe so as to create a partial vacuum. The vacuum pump was a manual device, and volunteers from the class were appointed to do the hard work.

Thanks for that, I was uncertain whether altitude outside of the pressurised cooling system had an extra affect overall. I should have remembered the mountaineers boiling their kettles for tea example I have used before.
Like you we did do the physics lab demo, although I think an electric vacuum pump was utilised.

 

[theoneandonly]

As mentioned earlier a simple way of getting a temperature reading even if gauge is fubard is to use the OBD2 port and a simple app like Torque (free version will do) on an Android device (phone or tablet) Note OBD2 adaptor also required.