Technical EGR solenoid valve

[g8rpi]

Again, you're the only saint among a bunch of sinners...
And as sinners, we're not interested in your legal/ilegal comments...so join in, or leave and join Greenpeace or something...

:devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil:

I've never claimed to be a saint, I've not even told members not to modify their emissions equipment, I just advise people who may not know any better what the possible implications are. I'm not the only member who feels this way. I did find another interesting link http://cleanair.london/hot-topics/t...vehicles-illegally-after-government-failures/
which includes the following quote from the DOT
"I can confirm that under the Construction and Use Regulations (more specifically, Regulation 61A of the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations) it is illegal to use a vehicle on the road if it has been modified in such a way that it no longer meets the air quality emissions standards that it had to when originally produced. The law does not forbid modification of the emissions control equipment. It forbids modification that makes the vehicle emit more pollutant than it is permitted to by virtue of the standard to which it was originally approved. Also, that under 8.2.1.1 (petrol) and 8.2.2.1 (diesel) of the Testing Directive 2010/48 now applicable in the UK, a vehicle can be failed if any part of the emission control is absent, modified or obviously defective. However, please note the MOT test is a visual inspection that does not include dismantling of a vehicle or its components."

As I've said before, I've no problem with you advocating EGR blanking or DPF removal to members, as long as you also say in your post that it is illegal to do so.

Robert G8RPI.
http://cleanair.london/hot-topics/t...ter-government-failures/#sthash.vL3H7TJV.dpuf

 

[Peter Pick-Up]

I've never claimed to be a saint, I've not even told members not to modify their emissions equipment, I just advise people who may not know any better what the possible implications are. I'm not the only member who feels this way. I did find another interesting link http://cleanair.london/hot-topics/t...vehicles-illegally-after-government-failures/
which includes the following quote from the DOT
"I can confirm that under the Construction and Use Regulations (more specifically, Regulation 61A of the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations) it is illegal to use a vehicle on the road if it has been modified in such a way that it no longer meets the air quality emissions standards that it had to when originally produced. The law does not forbid modification of the emissions control equipment. It forbids modification that makes the vehicle emit more pollutant than it is permitted to by virtue of the standard to which it was originally approved. Also, that under 8.2.1.1 (petrol) and 8.2.2.1 (diesel) of the Testing Directive 2010/48 now applicable in the UK, a vehicle can be failed if any part of the emission control is absent, modified or obviously defective. However, please note the MOT test is a visual inspection that does not include dismantling of a vehicle or its components."

As I've said before, I've no problem with you advocating EGR blanking or DPF removal to members, as long as you also say in your post that it is illegal to do so.

Robert G8RPI.
http://cleanair.london/hot-topics/t...ter-government-failures/#sthash.vL3H7TJV.dpuf

:devil:

 

[Peter James]

I've never claimed to be a saint, I've not even told members not to modify their emissions equipment, I just advise people who may not know any better what the possible implications are. I'm not the only member who feels this way. I did find another interesting link http://cleanair.london/hot-topics/t...vehicles-illegally-after-government-failures/
which includes the following quote from the DOT
"I can confirm that under the Construction and Use Regulations (more specifically, Regulation 61A of the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations) it is illegal to use a vehicle on the road if it has been modified in such a way that it no longer meets the air quality emissions standards that it had to when originally produced. The law does not forbid modification of the emissions control equipment. It forbids modification that makes the vehicle emit more pollutant than it is permitted to by virtue of the standard to which it was originally approved. Also, that under 8.2.1.1 (petrol) and 8.2.2.1 (diesel) of the Testing Directive 2010/48 now applicable in the UK, a vehicle can be failed if any part of the emission control is absent, modified or obviously defective. However, please note the MOT test is a visual inspection that does not include dismantling of a vehicle or its components."

As I've said before, I've no problem with you advocating EGR blanking or DPF removal to members, as long as you also say in your post that it is illegal to do so.

Robert G8RPI.

You make some fair points. But politicians making laws in their Hedonistic bubble in Westminster don't always live in the real world. What do you do when most of your mileage is start/stop/low speed with a cold engine? Do you keep running with the EGR valve sticking belching out more smoke - presumably thats illegal as well. Keep getting it towed in to a garage for another EGR valve at £500+ a pop plus tow in because its illegal to drive it there when its emitting more smoke because the EGR is blocked?
Or do you block off the EGR valve because thats the least worst option, and the option that those of us who live in the real world might need to take?

 

[CDK]

Are you saying that putting exhaust smoke into the engine instead of fresh air doesn't sacrifice engine performance ?

Yes I do! A properly designed and built EGR system will feed a limited amount of exhaust gas back to the engine under driving conditions that do not require full engine power, like cruising on a highway at moderate speed. Diesel engines breath more air than they need for combustion and tend to produce nitrogen oxides; by "polluting" the intake air with exhaust smoke the oxygen content is lowered and less NOx is produced.
With poor quality EGR components like valves that are compromised and no feedback to the ECU the system creates more pollution and reduces engine power.

 

[CDK]

But i am wondering if it's possible to fit a resistor instead of the valve ?
I think I will try it when I know the ohm-value on the new valve.

You could replace the valve with a 47 Ohms/1 Watt resistor if that makes you happy, but it is easier to cut the thin vacuum hose between the solenoid and the EGR valve, insert a piece of 5 mm solid material and connect both hose ends to it.

 

[Peter Pick-Up]

Yes I do! A properly designed and built EGR system will feed a limited amount of exhaust gas back to the engine under driving conditions that do not require full engine power, like cruising on a highway at moderate speed. Diesel engines breath more air than they need for combustion and tend to produce nitrogen oxides; by "polluting" the intake air with exhaust smoke the oxygen content is lowered and less NOx is produced.
With poor quality EGR components like valves that are compromised and no feedback to the ECU the system creates more pollution and reduces engine power.

Only problem here: even a properly designed and built EGR wil get contaminated with sooth and carbon after a few years/mls ( km's) that will cause that properly buit and designed EGR to fail, no question, making the engine spit out a LOT more toxic gasses, which makes the driver a sinner, one way or the other...
:devil:

 

[Peter James]

Yes I do! A properly designed and built EGR system will feed a limited amount of exhaust gas back to the engine under driving conditions that do not require full engine power, like cruising on a highway at moderate speed. Diesel engines breath more air than they need for combustion and tend to produce nitrogen oxides; by "polluting" the intake air with exhaust smoke the oxygen content is lowered and less NOx is produced.
With poor quality EGR components like valves that are compromised and no feedback to the ECU the system creates more pollution and reduces engine power.

We already know that an EGR should reduce emissions if its working properly, and that full engine power is not always needed. But 'performance' includes fuel consumption which you continue to ignore.

 

[Peter James]

You could replace the valve with a 47 Ohms/1 Watt resistor if that makes you happy, but it is easier to cut the thin vacuum hose between the solenoid and the EGR valve, insert a piece of 5 mm solid material and connect both hose ends to it.

But would that work when the EGR valve is jammed open?
Mine was, I got a blanking plate off ebay and that worked.
It didn't bring on the dashboard light, and the van passed its emissions test when they stuffed a probe up the exhaust pipe at MOT, but it seems I was just lucky with that. Others have said it brings on their dashboard light which is an MOT fail.

 

[CDK]

Make sure the EGR valve is closed; I used compressed air to close it. The blanking plate of course is a good solution, but more difficult to install because the valve is in an awkward position.
In this particular engine and model year there is no feedback whatsoever to the ECU, hence no warning light!

 

[corcai]

In this particular engine and model year there is no feedback whatsoever to the ECU, hence no warning light!

Theoretically the ECU should know from the MAF reading no other feedback needed. It must be mapped with very forgiving parameters.

 

[Riis]

Hello
back again with few questions.
The solenoid valve is now new, but the lamp is still on and the tester show:

code P0403
EGR valve
Opencircuit
Present

Can anybody tell me what it means
Thanks beforehand
Riis

 

[corcai]

Open circuit means the circuit is broken somewhere along the line connectors, loom, ECU. Check for corrosion in the connector at the egr intermediate connector and ecu check continuity and resistance between egr plug and ecu plug.

 

[Riis]

Hello corcai
open circuit found !!
Broken wire (completely broken) by the edge of the connector to the solenoid valve.

It is solded now and the code cleared and everything running perfekt.
Thanks to you.
Perhaps i should know it was a possibility, but to me, mostly working with VW and MB I have never before seen broken wire in such a position.

Thanks a lot to everybody.
Riis

 

[corcai]

Glas you sorted it

but to me, mostly working with VW and MB I have never before seen broken wire in such a position.

You never owned a passat then

 

[adlarplant]

good to know you've got it sorted, the valve as you've probably worked out is normally in the closed position when at idle.Whilst reading through the posts ive noticed alot of people taking the moral high ground in relationship to the pros and cons of the modification . Ive removed the entire EGR assembly from my MY11 2.3 Ducato blanked off both the inlet and exhaust manifolds and made a custom fitting from the block to take the heater hose. The controller is still in place and wired up to the ecu but Ive blanked the vacuum supply to the unit, I was told by doing this number 4 cylinder would run hot, i would get numerous codes relating to its removal ,power would be down noticeably and it just wont run or start or any of the above (all these remarks came from my Fiat Dealer) What i have found is cooler under bonnet temperatures and marginally better fuel economy the biggest thing ive found is soot levels in the oil have reduced dramatically (testing done by Caterpillar) therefore much less wear and less friction cooler running and less wear are 2 big pluses in my view. BTW you do realise catalytic converters do have a lifespan and should be replaced but rarely are so would the nay sayers saying the world will end if people modify their engines back off Cheers Adam

 

[Pilatus1]

Hi all,


I need some help from you friendly folks.


I've got a 2007 Ducato x250, 120 2.3 liter. 140,000k or so.


Wifey went to start it, and no power. She called the roadside service people, and they came to check it out. He said it was the EGR. He tapped on it with a hammer, power returned. Wifey drove it to the shop to ask for an estimate. 600 swiss francs+ for the new EGR, plus labor. Hmm, she called me. I told her to drive it home and i'd do it myself. (I saw a new EGR on e-bay for 110 euros.)


Now I've started reading a bit about it, and maybe my best bet is to just blank it off? Or can I just block off the vacuum hose that opens it? Yes, I know that it may be illegal. And that it may create more NOx. But with more power and less particulate, and better mpg. Life is a trade off.


The blanking plate is available on ebay for less than 10 francs. Is it hard to install? As in, is the egr accessible on this model? What are the potential holdups and pitfalls?


Does anything else need to be done? Blocking the vacuum hoses off? adding any sort of electronic gadgetry? Cleaning the intake manifold? (is this a pain in the arse to remove, or no big deal? Just need a new gasket?, etc.etc.) I don't want the motor to appear modified if I need to take it in for the MOT type test.


Basically, I'm a cheap bastard and need to get my van working dependably on a low budget. Ive got some mechanical know-how and basic tools, but don't have an ecu scanner or pressure test equipment. I'm out of town right now, so can't even look under the bonnet myself and see what, if anything, needs to be removed to get access. But I need to figure out what to do so I can get it fixed as soon as I return there next week...

Has anyone here done this on the same model? If so, how long did it take, and what exactly needed to be done?


Sorry for the long post, and thanks in advance for your advice...




....also posting this in egr blanking thread

 

[CDK]

If the guy with the hammer did a good job, the EGR valve is closed now and all you have to do is block the vacuum hose so it will never open again. The valve is a rusty lump at the rear end of a stainless square tube (heat exchanger) attached to right side of the engine block. You can clearly see it and even reach it with one hand, but installing a blanking plate seems quite challenging to me.

Much more difficult is cleaning the intake manifold. On a MJ-120 with 140,000k on the clock it half filled with sticky soot. To get access you have to remove the throttle valve that sits on top of it, visible after you've removed the air duct. It is attached with 4 bolts with 13mm heads, two can be removed with a socket wrench and a long extension, the other two have seen a lot of water ingress and won't budge.
You have to remove the whole plastic front and the cross member that keeps the radiator upright, then you gently move the radiator forward to make room for your hands and the tools of your choice. I managed to get the left bolt out using lots of WD-40, but the right one finally snapped.
Once the valve assembly is off, there is a square hole through which you can see and remove the dirt that didn't reach the engine. I used various kitchen utensils I found in a drawer hoping my wife never looked there. But she did!
I also took the throttle valve apart and removed lots of rust from a chamber where the return spring resides. The engine doesn't really need the device, but the ECU is unhappy if it sees no load on the throttle valve output and the engine quits faster.