Hi all, just Purchased Fit Ducats, 3LTR, Diesel, manual, Coach Built Motorhome. It's having a new clutch fitted, I've been told it quite a big job and quite a large strip down of the engine ( I am not mechanically minded, so I don't know, only what they say, what I want to know is there anything else that could be done at the same time, which may be expensive and require another strip down in the future, IE, mechanical parts etc worn etc, that could be done now at the same time, just trying to cover bases. Thanks all.
Technical Ducato
- Thread starter XEOE
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Technical Ducato
Dave Tring
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Look to see if and when the cambelt and water pump has been changed, you should see this in your service book possible with a stamp or maybe you will have some receipts from the previous owner. If not the look in your service manual at it will tell you at what time and mileage this must be done. Dont go past this date or milage because if the belt snaps it will destroy the engine. This is quite an expensive task to do. Regards Dave Tring
Hi
As Dave has said if it had a Timing belt I would be checking that it & the pulley bearings has been changed as per the service schedule.
The 3.0lt doesn't have a Timing belt, it has a Timing chain which under normal conditions lasts pretty much the life of the vehicle although not always.
If the clutch is being changed it would be normal to replace the clutch concentric slave cylinder as part of the "kit" but just in case I would be making sure that it is REPLACED at the same time as if it fails later the gear box would have to come out again. The kit would or should consist of a new pressure plate, clutch plate & as I said new concentric slave cylinder.
The flywheel would normally be surface ground as well but the 3.0lts use a "Duel Mass Flywheel" which is basically a flywheel in two pieces & because of how thin each half is compared to a solid flywheel they might not take to too much surface grinding. They are replaced sometimes by a solid flywheel because of the cost with a different pressure/clutch plate etc.
Cheers
As Dave has said if it had a Timing belt I would be checking that it & the pulley bearings has been changed as per the service schedule.
The 3.0lt doesn't have a Timing belt, it has a Timing chain which under normal conditions lasts pretty much the life of the vehicle although not always.
If the clutch is being changed it would be normal to replace the clutch concentric slave cylinder as part of the "kit" but just in case I would be making sure that it is REPLACED at the same time as if it fails later the gear box would have to come out again. The kit would or should consist of a new pressure plate, clutch plate & as I said new concentric slave cylinder.
The flywheel would normally be surface ground as well but the 3.0lts use a "Duel Mass Flywheel" which is basically a flywheel in two pieces & because of how thin each half is compared to a solid flywheel they might not take to too much surface grinding. They are replaced sometimes by a solid flywheel because of the cost with a different pressure/clutch plate etc.
Cheers
HI, Free Spirit, thank you so much for explaining, so what your saying is that if the Duel as Flywheel is not replaced it would be best to ask for this to be exchanged for a solid Flywheel?? Would you know the cost of this item, if I had to pay for it replacing??
Hi XEOE
Flywheels generally can get very hot with what is loosely called "operator abuse" as in slipping the clutch for various reasons. It is the heat generated by the slipping that can cause heat cracks, warping etc in the flywheel. Which is why it is always recommended to get the flywheel surface ground so as to have a truly flat surface for the new clutch plate to mate with.
With a Duel Mass flywheel as I said it is in two parts with the Torsion springs between the two halves which are normally part of the clutch plate to smooth the engine torsional vibrations from the drive line. but as stated it is not recommended to machine a DMF so either replace it with another new DMF & clutch kit or a solid flywheel & matching clutch kit.
As for the cost I unfortunately have no idea as I am in Oz but the replacement DMF kits are expensive whereas a solid flywheel & kit would be cheaper. See attached pic for a DMF kit to suit a 3.0lt. Notice the clutch plate has no torsion springs & the concentric slave cylinder that is fitted inside the bell housing hence the removal of the gearbox if it fails. Labor to install the kit is estimated at around 8.5 hours to R/R the kit.
Cheers
Flywheels generally can get very hot with what is loosely called "operator abuse" as in slipping the clutch for various reasons. It is the heat generated by the slipping that can cause heat cracks, warping etc in the flywheel. Which is why it is always recommended to get the flywheel surface ground so as to have a truly flat surface for the new clutch plate to mate with.
With a Duel Mass flywheel as I said it is in two parts with the Torsion springs between the two halves which are normally part of the clutch plate to smooth the engine torsional vibrations from the drive line. but as stated it is not recommended to machine a DMF so either replace it with another new DMF & clutch kit or a solid flywheel & matching clutch kit.
As for the cost I unfortunately have no idea as I am in Oz but the replacement DMF kits are expensive whereas a solid flywheel & kit would be cheaper. See attached pic for a DMF kit to suit a 3.0lt. Notice the clutch plate has no torsion springs & the concentric slave cylinder that is fitted inside the bell housing hence the removal of the gearbox if it fails. Labor to install the kit is estimated at around 8.5 hours to R/R the kit.
Cheers
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mikefitz406
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Do not fit a solid flywheel to your vehicle, it will destroy the gearbox and damage the engine.
A replacement dual mass flywheel from a quality manufacturer, LUK, costs about £300, I strongly recommend it is replaced along with the clutch kit and slave cylinder.
Mike
A replacement dual mass flywheel from a quality manufacturer, LUK, costs about £300, I strongly recommend it is replaced along with the clutch kit and slave cylinder.
Mike
mikefitz406
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There is not much else at the gearbox end of the engine to consider replacing. The drive shafts and part of the suspension will have to be removed and and competent garage will advise on any problems.
Ensure the gearbox is refilled with the correct amount and spec gear box oil, Tutela Matryx 75W 85 synthetic oil API GL4. Alternatives will reduce box life.
The comments about timing belt and water pump are not worth considering, these are nowhere near the gearbox. Your engine has a timing chain that will last the life of the engine with regular oil changes.
If the work is being carried out by an independent rather than a Fiat garage ensure they use quality parts, example LUK, and can show evidence. There are many inferior clutch parts on the market.
With over 9 hours work, a large part of the bill will be based on the hourly rate. Changing the DM flywheel will add little or no extra time to the work if carried out with the clutch change. Regardless of appearance the DM flywheel will have been damaged by the slipping clutch so needs replacing.
A clutch replacement at low miles is unusual and may have been caused by the slave cylinder failure contaminating the clutch. This is not unusual on motor homes that spend long periods idle.
Just to force the message home, only fit a dual mass flywheel to this engine.
Mike
Ensure the gearbox is refilled with the correct amount and spec gear box oil, Tutela Matryx 75W 85 synthetic oil API GL4. Alternatives will reduce box life.
The comments about timing belt and water pump are not worth considering, these are nowhere near the gearbox. Your engine has a timing chain that will last the life of the engine with regular oil changes.
If the work is being carried out by an independent rather than a Fiat garage ensure they use quality parts, example LUK, and can show evidence. There are many inferior clutch parts on the market.
With over 9 hours work, a large part of the bill will be based on the hourly rate. Changing the DM flywheel will add little or no extra time to the work if carried out with the clutch change. Regardless of appearance the DM flywheel will have been damaged by the slipping clutch so needs replacing.
A clutch replacement at low miles is unusual and may have been caused by the slave cylinder failure contaminating the clutch. This is not unusual on motor homes that spend long periods idle.
Just to force the message home, only fit a dual mass flywheel to this engine.
Mike
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As Mikefitz says, only use a dual mass flywheel. It is there to smooth out the cyclic variations in torque (twisting effort) from the engine before it gets to the gearbox. This considerably reduces noise and vibration, but more vitally it reduces the peak torque which has to be handled by the gearbox. A solid flywheel will overload the gear teeth and the box is very likely to fail.
Even some modern turbo petrol engines have DMFs, and the makers exploit this to allow the fitting of lighter weight gearboxes.
Even some modern turbo petrol engines have DMFs, and the makers exploit this to allow the fitting of lighter weight gearboxes.
