Technical Ducato X250/290 stalls and throttle not responsive after rain

[Gigglebox]

Hello people...

Heeeellllp! I have a Fiat Ducato 2015 3.0 x290.
This issue happened one time before but it cleared up!..

After last nights storm.. I ended up with water in my airfilter box.. The ubend at the bottom was full.
The van was standing, not running so I assume the water came in from the front scoop under the lip pf the bonnet.
Anyway.. I cleared out the water.. dried the filter.. and attempted to start the van..

They symptoms are ..
I try to start the van.. It has fuel from the pump.. I can hear it. It starts but stalls after a few seconds.
I have tried without the air filter and it does the same ( as the filter was damp at the base )
Occasionally it runs for 5 seconds and stalls.. like fuel or air starvation ( hence removed the air filter to discount restricted airflow )
The throttle is non responsive even when its running for 5 seconds.
No error codes are shown.

Last year it just .. suddenly started after a few hours of waiting and trying.
Today after yesterdays rain.. it will not.. max 5 seconds of idle then a stall.

I think the issue is not to do with the air filter but the fact when it rains heavily I get rain in my engine bay via the seal on the bonnets air scoop for the habitation air.
I noticed this morning water on top of my airfilter box which will have ran onto any wires around and below it.

Could it now be an electrical fault with the throttle sensors/wiring that I 'think' are in this area?

So does anyone know, what I need to check for.. throttle body connections etc.. ( I dont know where they are.. just a guess )

Any help really appreciated as my Ducato is my home/motorhome.. Im stranded and any garages Ive called dont want to know as I live in the van.

praying for a miracle!

Baz

 

[ER worker]

Hi, you need to check around main ecu,also fusebox in engine bay. Maybe it's filled with water. Also check connectors of airflow sensor and others, maybe they are moist. If they are moist buy some K2 spray contact spray or something like that and spray all the connectors.

 

[Communicator]

I have a visual memory dating I think from the last few months of a posted photo showing damaged wiring near the ECU, on LH inner wing. One of the wiring forms can rub against a tubular member to the extent that the insulation or more is damaged. The poster had taken preventative measures on his current vehicle. Perhaps an example of "rusty junction". Unfortunately I cannot recall poster or forum.

Given the conditions mentioned it seems that rain water will have reached this area, and if wiring is damaged..........

To gain access it may be necessary to remove the LH headlamp unit.

 

[Gigglebox]

Hi, you need to check around main ecu,also fusebox in engine bay. Maybe it's filled with water. Also check connectors of airflow sensor and others, maybe they are moist. If they are moist buy some K2 spray contact spray or something like that and spray all the connectors.

Thank you .. I checked fusebox was dry, sprayed all connections and even left the bonnet up for the 2 days of daytime sunshine.Still nothing,
Then day 3 .it started!
Im assuming something needed to dry out that having the bonnet up didnt help!

 

[Gigglebox]

I have a visual memory dating I think from the last few months of a posted photo showing damaged wiring near the ECU, on LH inner wing. One of the wiring forms can rub against a tubular member to the extent that the insulation or more is damaged. The poster had taken preventative measures on his current vehicle. Perhaps an example of "rusty junction". Unfortunately I cannot recall poster or forum.

Given the conditions mentioned it seems that rain water will have reached this area, and if wiring is damaged..........

To gain access it may be necessary to remove the LH headlamp unit.

Thank you .. this sounds like it could be the culprit! When you say LH is that looking at the front of the van ( near side/kurb side )
Ill have a dig about!

 

[Communicator]

The nearside for a RHD vehicle. I always quote sides as viewed from the driving seat. If for example you purchased an LH lamp unit, you would expect to get the one on the left as viewed from that position.

As I said previously, you will probably have to remove the LH lamp unit for access. Take a good look, and then take care not to move the adjusters. This should avoid any need to reset the adjustment. If the adjusters are the same as those on my x244, they are like a large nut (18mm spanner) around the M6 (10mm spanner) fixing bolt.

 

[porta]

Hi, you need to check around main ecu,also fusebox in engine bay. Maybe it's filled with water. Also check connectors of airflow sensor and others, maybe they are moist. If they are moist buy some K2 spray contact spray or something like that and spray all the connectors.

Yes, mates van did the same…disconnect the battery, get air box out of way and unplug the fuse box, before using any spray.
You can get a number of ‘electrical contact’ sprays, the one we used is one that expels water and dissipates, not like WD40. We then put it on a radiator to clear out any remaining (the sun will do that at the minute).
We also replaced the relays as it looked like water had been getting in for a while and they were chalky and some terminals green…the issue, we think, only appeared after a new screen was fitted four months previously. Not that we could figure out why a screen change would affect this, but you never know if something has been knocked

 

[Gigglebox]

The nearside for a RHD vehicle. I always quote sides as viewed from the driving seat. If for example you purchased an LH lamp unit, you would expect to get the one on the left as viewed from that position.

As I said previously, you will probably have to remove the LH lamp unit for access. Take a good look, and then take care not to move the adjusters. This should avoid any need to reset the adjustment. If the adjusters are the same as those on my x244, they are like a large nut (18mm spanner) around the M6 (10mm spanner) fixing bolt.

Thank you..
I have had a look after hosing the windscreen with lots of water.. It appears when the right hand scuttle drain pipe cant handle the load, it overflows the our of the scuttle and seeps water into the area you describe.. I took the lamp off and could see a grey electrical plug with water sitting in the back of each terminal.. although they appear sealed.. Im not sure.. Also the large black replay bolted to the inner wing just below this plug is drenched. Is there anyway in finding out what these components control.. it may makes sense with the stalling?

My thoughts is this scuttle design, although flawed anyway . probably wasn't designed to take the quantity of water from the top of a motorhome roof when its torrential.. my MH has two forward drain channels on the roof that the water flows out onto each side of the windscreen. This issue has only happened in bad rain when my vans nose is parked slightly down.

Any info on the connectors would be most appreciated!

baz

 

[Communicator]

I do not have information specific to the 3.0 multijet. eLearn for the x250 is a large downloadable file,and is available in the forum downloads section (see top of page). Also available as CD on Ebay. Needs Windows computer, and optical drive for CD. x250 Training Manual is smaller file, also downloadable. Much useful info.

 

[Gigglebox]

Yes, mates van did the same…disconnect the battery, get air box out of way and unplug the fuse box, before using any spray.
You can get a number of ‘electrical contact’ sprays, the one we used is one that expels water and dissipates, not like WD40. We then put it on a radiator to clear out any remaining (the sun will do that at the minute).
We also replaced the relays as it looked like water had been getting in for a while and they were chalky and some terminals green…the issue, we think, only appeared after a new screen was fitted four months previously. Not that we could figure out why a screen change would affect this, but you never know if something has been knocked

Thank you..
I have had a look after hosing the windscreen with lots of water.. It appears when the right hand scuttle drain pipe cant handle the load, it overflows the our of the scuttle and seeps water into the area you describe.. I took the lamp off and could see a grey electrical plug with water sitting in the back of each terminal.. although they appear sealed.. Im not sure.. Also the large black replay bolted to the inner wing just below this plug is drenched. Is there anyway in finding out what these components control.. it may makes sense with the stalling?

My thoughts is this scuttle design, although flawed anyway . probably wasn't designed to take the quantity of water from the top of a motorhome roof when its torrential.. my MH has two forward drain channels on the roof that the water flows out onto each side of the windscreen. This issue has only happened in bad rain when my vans nose is parked slightly down.

Any info on the connectors would be most appreciated!

baz

I do not have information specific to the 3.0 multijet. eLearn for the x250 is a large downloadable file,and is available in the forum downloads section (see top of page). Also available as CD on Ebay. Needs Windows computer, and optical drive for CD. x250 Training Manual is smaller file, also downloadable. Much useful info.

Thanks for all help people!
I think found the relay was actually the glow plug controller. But the grey connector that may be the culprit is the DPF for the cat. I'm wondering if wet in this plug caused the issue.
Anyway I have covered some of the connectors to protect them from the water ingress!
Fingers crossed!

 

[the green vanper]

The problem was very common on the x250s, apparently it was ment to be fixed in the x290s, but from your case (and not only yours) I assume that it is coming back after some mileage.

The plastic cover on the bottom of the windshield has to be cleaned and sealed. Sikaflex would be best. New clips will also help to keep the joint between the windshield and the plastic cover sealed. Of course it won't avoid overflowing the drain pipe.

The water was getting onto the EGR socket causing starting problems. The earth / ground engine point behind the left front lamp was also getting rusted because of that. And this was not helping I know that some people were adding an extra earth cable from the body to the engine.

On the opposite side of the engine bay (right hand side) there's a power steering fluid reservoir. The x250 cap has a small hole in it and a small pipe which normally works as some kind of vent. The pipe was known to fall out due to vibrations and water was getting through the cap into the reservoir! It was not mixing with the fluid, but it created an emulsion, which caused problems to the steering mechanism.

That's how the x250 cap looks like:

That's how it looks like without the pipe:

In my 2012 x250 I have an extra cover which apparently was fitted by Citroen:

It just clips onto the cap:

I've just found online a new cap without the hole:

I hope it is fitted as standard in the x290. But please check that your cap is sealed. And safe for your van.

I've read on the Polish forum that Sevel was fitting an extra engine bay plastic cover for the English market (hahaha, probably because of the amount of rain you have), which was directing water to the front and the back of the engine bay. And thus preventing the connectors getting wet. I have no knowledge of the Fiat part number, but I'd be interested in getting one, so if someone has got this extra cover in his engine bay, please post the part number and / or photo here.

I have some cover in my engine bay, too on the top of my Natural Power engine, but I think that it covers only the right hand side - I need to check a few things on the engine in a couple of days, so I will take a photo and post it here together with the part number for future reference.

 

[Gigglebox]

Thank you for your reply. I have now protected the connectors that were getting wet. I'll look at the earth strap too! Thanks for all the extra info!

 

[Communicator]

It may be wise to investigate deeper.

Here, is a link to the problem that I was thinking about to in post #3. I think that @Reg 65 may have some photos of the problem, and prevention. If so, perhaps he would be kind enough to post?

 

[the green vanper]

As promised at the end of post #11, I had to do a few things under the bonnet, so I took some photos of the engine cover my Ducato has. The part number is 504381414. You can see on the photos the size and how much of the engine it covers.

 

[Communicator]

It may be wise to investigate deeper.

Here, is a link to the problem that I was thinking about to in post #3. I think that @Reg 65 may have some photos of the problem, and prevention. If so, perhaps he would be kind enough to post?

See post #5 in this thread, which includes photos.

 

[the green vanper]

See post #5 in this thread, which includes photos.

I know that this thread is about this precise electric problem, where water caused an issue on a cable with damaged insulation. But in x250s and x290s there's a known issue with water ingress into the engine bay during rain. If water won't be able to get into the engine bay, it won't cause any electrical issues, even in case of some cables' insulation being damaged.

People having this water ingress problem will find that post useful. I hope I know that not all of the x250s / x290s have this plastic cover, as written in my previous post. I also know that the water ingress is causing problems with injectors removal.

I had the same issue with water ingress in my Ducato after the weekend. On top of my engine I have 4 ignition coils in some kind of immersion. Propably it's the same place where injectors are found in diesel engines (but I can be mistaken). It was full of water (2 - 3 cm in depth), leaves and other debris from treas which fell down on the windscreen and then were washed down by the rain. The cover was ment to prevent it, but it didn't. Why? I've found that the seal at the bottom of the windscreen under the plastic cover was not tight. The cover was misplaced, half of the plastic clips is missing. Also the joint of two halves was not tight. There was a 3 - 4 milimeters space between them. I've ordered the plastic clips. I will replace them and try to position the cover as it was in the factory.

I spent two days cleaning all of it - both plastic covers, the seals, the air inlet into the engine and the cabin. I will be sealing the two halves of the cover with sikaflex when the clips arrive. I've also cleaned both drains (there are 2 in my Ducato - a bigger one directly from the plastic cover at the bottom of the windscreen slightly to the left hand side, and the other, smaller one, just below the place where the two plastic cover halves are joined together - both of them are best visible on the last photo of my previous post). I hope that proper repositionning of the cover, cleaning the seals, sealing the halves and keeping the drains clear will prevent similar situations in the future.

It was raining this night but there was no water on the engine. But I have no idea of how much rain we had I was sleeping.

This problem has to be solved in all of the x250s and x290s, as it comes out at several occasions