Technical Ducato 2.8 jtd will not start.

[Ralph Burton]

I have a 2006 Ducato 2.8 jtd. Removed air filter to top up gearbox. put it back together and turned over on starter but would not fire. New fuel pump and a few wiring fixes later it ran beautifully.
Prior to going on holiday replaced reverse light switch on top of g/box. Had to remove air filter again. I now have the same problem. Will not start.
I obtained a Gendan MultiECUScan. This brings up two fault codes. P1671 Fuel pressure regulator and P0148 #3piston deactivation relay.
Both of these items are new as they came with the new fuel pump.
The lift pump in the tank works.
There is power to both items.
The ECU refuses to 'talk' to both items and the fault codes will not clear as the diagnostic says that the faults still exist.
The ECU has been checked out and the report says that all the components are in full working order.
HELP PLEASE.

 

[bugsymike]

Using MES live data can you see common rail fuel pressure and is it below 230Bar roughly.?
Also can you read indivudual injectors readings?
Have you done a "leak off" test?
Any chance you pushed against a wire to the ECU if in that area? I have had fiats with wires broken inside their plastic sheathing, so until gentle pulled appear good but plastic stretches.

 

[Ralph Burton]

I don't know about the first two. I'll have to have a look.
Item 3 was done when the fuel pump was replaced and apparently it made no difference.
Item 4. I have checked the engine bay loom as best as I can. The faults suggest broken wires but there is power to both regulator and solenoid.
The broken wire idea was the first thing I thought of but as far as I can tell they are all OK. I will have another jiggle at the wires around the ECU tomorrow. Getting the air filter body out is a bit if a tight fit so it could be a wire but as I say there is power to both items.

 

[bugsymike]

I don't know about the first two. I'll have to have a look.
Item 3 was done when the fuel pump was replaced and apparently it made no difference.
Item 4. I have checked the engine bay loom as best as I can. The faults suggest broken wires but there is power to both regulator and solenoid.
The broken wire idea was the first thing I thought of but as far as I can tell they are all OK. I will have another jiggle at the wires around the ECU tomorrow. Getting the air filter body out is a bit if a tight fit so it could be a wire but as I say there is power to both items.

Unlikely but check to see if rev counter reacting when you crank the engine as if not that can point to crank position sensor.
I assume immobiliser light comes on and then goes off before cxranking engine?
Leak off test can show if one injector faulty preventing engine commonrail fuel pressure reaching minimum starting pressure, roughly 230 Bar. ish.
Initially from what you describe I would have said a break in the wiring.

 

[Ralph Burton]

Rev counter works.
Mobiliser light works fine.
I don't think it's injectors because it worked fine before the first air filter removal. Worked fine after it had new pump etc. It seems every time I take the air filter out it stops working. I hope it is wiring cos a new ECU will be a bit pricey.

 

[bugsymike]

Rev counter works.
Mobiliser light works fine.
I don't think it's injectors because it worked fine before the first air filter removal. Worked fine after it had new pump etc. It seems every time I take the air filter out it stops working. I hope it is wiring cos a new ECU will be a bit pricey.

Does point towards a wiring issue, it was fine before disturbing air filter, can you see what may have been moved?
I have had roptten wire on Fiat Grande Punto and on Iveco Daily vans.

 

[Communicator]

I have a 2006 Ducato 2.8 jtd. Removed air filter to top up gearbox. put it back together and turned over on starter but would not fire. New fuel pump and a few wiring fixes later it ran beautifully.
Prior to going on holiday replaced reverse light switch on top of g/box. Had to remove air filter again. I now have the same problem. Will not start.
I obtained a Gendan MultiECUScan. This brings up two fault codes. P1671 Fuel pressure regulator and P0148 #3piston deactivation relay.
Both of these items are new as they came with the new fuel pump.
The lift pump in the tank works.
There is power to both items.
The ECU refuses to 'talk' to both items and the fault codes will not clear as the diagnostic says that the faults still exist.
The ECU has been checked out and the report says that all the components are in full working order.
HELP PLEASE.

Do you have necessary engine wiring diagrams, and ECU pinout? For 3rd piston deactivation relay, read solenoid.
ECU is next to air filter which is bit of a puzzle to remove., especially if mounting nuts are rusted onto the antivibration mountings.
What wiring fixes were needed?
"There is power to both items" How do you know this? If reading voltage at connector when disconnected, then modern multimeters are very sensitive, and can give an apparently good reading through a high resistance fault. This could be a faulty wire, as suggested by @bugsymike in earlier post.

When changing my reversing light switch, I noticed that what I assume is the crank sensor cable running close to the clutch slave cylinder, and it seemed vulnerable, but reading later posts, I see that rpm indicator works.

My PVC also is a 2006 2.8jtd, and I hold edited copies of appropriate wiring diagrams, but not connector wiring details other than on eLearn.

 

[Ralph Burton]

The only wiring diagram I can find is from eLearn. It is close but where the offending items connect to the ECU the pin numbers do not appear to be right.
I think I am going to remove the engine bay wiring loom and replace the wires to both pressure regulator and #3 deactivation solenoid. I'll trace thewires from start to finish by hand.
I'll let you know what happens when the wires arrive.

 

[bugsymike]

The only wiring diagram I can find is from eLearn. It is close but where the offending items connect to the ECU the pin numbers do not appear to be right.
I think I am going to remove the engine bay wiring loom and replace the wires to both pressure regulator and #3 deactivation solenoid. I'll trace thewires from start to finish by hand.
I'll let you know what happens when the wires arrive.

Can you try one of those cable trackers with the signal generator, like I mentioned in someone elses post.?

 

[Ralph Burton]

I've never come across one of them. Any particular one you would recommend or are they all pretty much alike?

 

[bugsymike]

I've never come across one of them. Any particular one you would recommend or are they all pretty much alike?

This is the one I use.

 

[Ralph Burton]

One on it's way. Keep your fingers crossed.

 

[bugsymike]

One on it's way. Keep your fingers crossed.

I usually find electrical faults only take minutes to fix, but hours to find.

 

[Ralph Burton]

Very true

 

[diego74]

HI,

I think these OBD2 DTCs you are getting are both related, I recently got "P0148 3rd piston deactivation" in my van due to the known "fuse 11 blown" issue, and after reading how the ECU behaves I understood that message represents a strategy that the ECU applies to protect the engine from breaking, basically by leaving the high pressure pump working with 2 pistons instead of 3, by doing this it is reducing the power of the high pressure fuel pump.

In my case the engine started but I guess it was working in emergency/limp/low performance mode so since in your case your engine does not start then I would be focusing in the second DTC that you reported: "P1671 Fuel pressure regulator" since this could make the engine not to start.

Using the OBD2 scanner check the following values while crancking:

Also, when you turn the key to the ON possition (first one, before MAR position) do you hear the fuel pump below the driver's seat working for a couple of seconds?