Doblo 1300 multijet 2008 starting problem

[Stovesweep]

Hello everyone, thanks for letting me join, I have what seems to be a not uncommon problem with starting my van. I've had ot 10 years and it's been a reliable workhorse up until now. I have now a very annoying intermittent starting problem sometimes it cranks, sometimes it don't. Sometimes it cranks but won't start sometimes it cranks but does start totally unreliable.
So far these items have been replaced
Battery
Starter motor
Ignition switchwith new chipped key
Transponder ring
Any help would be really appreciated I am getting suicidal

 

[bugsymike]

Hello everyone, thanks for letting me join, I have what seems to be a not uncommon problem with starting my van. I've had ot 10 years and it's been a reliable workhorse up until now. I have now a very annoying intermittent starting problem sometimes it cranks, sometimes it don't. Sometimes it cranks but won't start sometimes it cranks but does start totally unreliable.
So far these items have been replaced
Battery
Starter motor
Ignition switchwith new chipped key
Transponder ring
Any help would be really appreciated I am getting suicidal

May be totally unrelated , but I had a 2014 Vauxhall Combo 1.3MJ (Doblo) that would stop at a junction when you dipped the clutch and die out and wouldn't restart until you locked and unlocked it again. It had Stop/Start , but that has never worked before or after the fix.
In the end I traced it to the clutch pedal position switch, the tag had broken off that follows the pedal action.
Easy enough to fit if you get your head up under the dash with a flat screwdriver, they are a bit flimsy so be careful.
I did a diagnostic and it showed up on that.
You could try the lock and unlock bit to see if similar issue.

 

[Stovesweep]

Thanks got a feeling it's the ecu

 

[bugsymike]

Thanks got a feeling it's the ecu

I would get a good code read of the errors first, everyone condems ECUs, but unless water has got in or it's been shorted generally not an issue.

 

[Stovesweep]

Thanks bugsymike, friend has tried to access the ecu with an obd but it won't let him. What do you think?

 

[bugsymike]

Thanks bugsymike, friend has tried to access the ecu with an obd but it won't let him. What do you think?

I use a MaxiEcu scan tool on my tablet as it worked with a Fiat Scudo I had that uses a Peugeot engine, but the common Fiat tool of preference is MES on this Forum.
I also have access to my friends Snap On Zeus Diagnostics which are of course quite extensive.
Re the times it doesn't do anything, does the immobiliser light come on with ignition key and go out before turning the ignition and does any spare key behave the same?
On some Ducatos they have found cleaning all the connections related to the antenae ring etc. but seeing most of that area has been worked on then unlikely to be an issue.
If possible to read the "live data" from the ECU when trying to start it would give a lot more detail to go on.
Also is it only on that first start of the day or at any time after it has been running?

 

[Stovesweep]

I changed the transponder ring, the padlock light does go out so I guess thst means the imobilser is being contacted. It just wont start and only cranks sometimes.

 

[bugsymike]

I changed the transponder ring, the padlock light does go out so I guess thst means the imobilser is being contacted. It just wont start and only cranks sometimes.

So if padlock symbol goes out then hopefully immobiliser side OK.
When/if engine cranks over does it do it at normal speed as though good connections and battery?
Have you tried jump starting it from another car to see if any better?
I wouldn't advise trying to "bump start" as especially on diesels it can cause serious damage
Are you losing any coolant? I have seen cars with slight head gasket leak that cause a hydraulic lock so starter cannot turn engine or only intermittently.
When it does start is it on all four cylinders or lumpy/misfire for a bit until it clears?
Are you getting any smoke on start up and if so what colour?
Are all battery leads and engine earthing points in good order?
When engine running does it behave perfectly or are there any other signs that something isn't right?

 

[Stovesweep]

I know it's wrong but the only way I csn get it to run is with easy start. When it does run it's sweet

 

[bugsymike]

I know it's wrong but the only way I csn get it to run is with easy start. When it does run it's sweet

What you say is a clue, but can you go through the questions I asked before and answer them to help our diagnosis.
If it was cranking everytime you turned the key but only started after the easy start it can point to a diesel issue, either air in the system or worn injectors so not getting enough pressure during cranking to tell the ECU to open the injectors electrically.
A diagnopstic test would show if common rail fuel pressure was too low during cranking.

 

[Stovesweep]

I appreciate your help, it only cranks very intermittently. My friend is going to try another diagnostic test on Wednesday, just hope he can get in touch with the ecu this time to get more information. Can't understand the cranking problem with a new battery and starter motor fitted

 

[bugsymike]

I appreciate your help, it only cranks very intermittently. My friend is going to try another diagnostic test on Wednesday, just hope he can get in touch with the ecu this time to get more information. Can't understand the cranking problem with a new battery and starter motor fitted

So the cranking needs to be fixed first.
I would start by making sure the battery is 100% first, then that the two main thick battery leads are not damaged and have good clean connections at each end and also the ones from battery to engine earth and where the battery positive lead connects to the starter.
Once you know they are good then the thin wire that connects to the starter solenoid on the new starter, (which I trust is 100% a good new starter and not a "cheapo"), if it still doesn't turn the engine over every time you turn the key, then I would try a temporary wire connected to the thin starter solenoid terminal on the starter which when touched to the battery positive terminal should activate the starter every time.
If it works the starter everytime and turns the engine over, then you know it is a fault between the ignition switch and the starter.
If that is the case it can be the feed from the ignition switch to the fuse box/relay or the wire to the ECU, note I am not saying the ECU.
I have had a 06 Fiat Punto1.3MJ that the trigger wire from the issue had rotted inside the plastic about a couple of mm from the ECU. this meant that it couldn't give the signal to the starter relay. This was proved using a powered electrical probe to the relay connection at the fusebox.
If any of this is outside your "comfort zone" get someone with more experience to do this, so nothing is damaged.

 

[Stovesweep]

Wow, thank you very much, I will go through all that in sequence, you're a gentleman

 

[Stovesweep]

I can hear the starter solenoid click every time but it only cranks very infrequently. Would hotwireing to the solenoid overide any input from the ecu?

 

[Stovesweep]

I can't find the starter relay in the fuse box. If the solenoid on the starter motor clicks I guess that means wherever the relay is that it must be working

 

[bugsymike]

I can hear the starter solenoid click every time but it only cranks very infrequently. Would hotwireing to the solenoid overide any input from the ecu?

If that is the case it sounds more like a battery or battery leads problem assuming your new starter is 100% good.