Do you use a super fuel?

[udtrev]

how about you get 30% if the ebay account is in your name. we also need 20 people to leave positive feedback saying it works to get things started. that will require 20 £10 bribes and paying the listing and seller fees for those bottles, you can buy 30% of superblue if you stump up the cash for that. i'll buy a shed load of bottles and the fuel and blue dye, and handle the despatch of orders. i'll also produce the superblue labels and attach them to the bottles.

sign on the dotted line


.....................................................

Greetings Mr Jug sir,

I am Mr Joseph Umugyu, solicitor to the Company Of Nigeria ltd.

We would be willing to buy all your stock providing you can deliver it to our agents in Southampton upon receipt of a Bankers Draft for £2,500,000 covered by Halifax Bank of Scottyland.

Please provide us with your bank account details so that we can get the draft prepared (to help you please use our bank account portal here http://www.rippedyouoff.con

Many thanks for your time

Joseph Umugyu - [email protected]

 

[jug]

Greetings Mr Jug sir,

I am Mr Joseph Umugyu, solicitor to the Company Of Nigeria ltd.

We would be willing to buy all your stock providing you can deliver it to our agents in Southampton upon receipt of a Bankers Draft for £2,500,000 covered by Halifax Bank of Scottyland.

Please provide us with your bank account details so that we can get the draft prepared (to help you please use our bank account portal here http://www.rippedyouoff.con

Many thanks for your time

Joseph Umugyu - [email protected]

please send the banker's draft by guaranteed next day fedex to
12/F, Acacia Building
150 Kennedy Road
WAN CHAI
HONG KONG

 

[maddogmorg]

please send the banker's draft by guaranteed next day fedex to
12/F, Acacia Building
150 Kennedy Road
WAN CHAI
HONG KONG

hmmmm that reminds me, doesn't bananaman(eric wimp) live on acacia road/avenue? slightly off topic lol.

 

[The Sultan]

jug all 156 petrols twin sparks have fully adaptive ignition no matter were they were sold were do you get your information

it uses as you probably know the knock sensor to listen for pinking and runs below it on the advance it's otherwise they would never get the full benefits of twin spark as it fires both plugs a fraction apart using the flame front to super compress the mix of fuel and air around the main plug

in my dads if he's forces to use 95 it runs like **** and coughs and splutters and the exhaust sounds weird for ages before it settles again

then when going to 98 or 99/100 4 star if posible it slowly works it's way up getting more and more power as it goes really can feel it kicking in

 

[jug]

jug all 156 petrols twin sparks have fully adaptive ignition no matter were they were sold were do you get your information

it uses as you probably know the knock sensor to listen for pinking and runs below it on the advance it's otherwise they would never get the full benefits of twin spark as it fires both plugs a fraction apart using the flame front to super compress the mix of fuel and air around the main plug

yes thats true almost every car has a knock sensor and it adjusts ignition timing to prevent knock, but the 156 ignition map is designed for 95 ron so it wont advance timing beyond that level to suit a higher octane. it says so on the alfa elearn software.

 

[ChrisUK]

99/100 4 star if posible it slowly works it's way up getting more and more power as it goes really can feel it kicking in

You use 4star (leaded) petrol in a modern Alfa twinspark engine? Is it just me or is that mildly retarded?

 

[StevenRB45]

You use 4star (leaded) petrol in a modern Alfa twinspark engine? Is it just me or is that mildly retarded?

Thought the main difference other than lead which destroys the cat, was a higher level of benzine which was added to unleaded to compensate for the octane effect. Other than that petrol is petrol as far as i'm aware they swapped one poisonous substance with known side effects for another with largely unknown ones.

 

[The Beard]

As I understand it, super petrols simply have a higher octane rating which has
a higher calorific value (getting out of my depth here) which in turn means they can produce higher levels of energy. For the majority of engines that only shows itself when it would be reaching the point where it would naturally be producing maximum power. In other words at or near peak revs. So unless you rev out in each gear there's not a lot of point. I tried a tankful in my Yam FJ 1200 and didn't notice a difference. Having said that, at full throttle on something that'll hit 60 in about 4 seconds you're starting to swallow your fillings so probably wouldn't notice. By the way Jug, if you talk to that Nigerian chap would you ask him how his brother the Prince is and when I can have my share of the diamonds he was having trouble getting out of the country?

 

[The Beard]

You use 4star (leaded) petrol in a modern Alfa twinspark engine? Is it just me or is that mildly retarded?

I think what he means is a fuel that had a similar rating to 4 star. If memory serves me correctly (possibly dubious) 4 star was 98 octane and 5 star was 101-105. I can remember going out for a night out, locally, a few months after passing my test with £2 and still had enough for fish and chips. 20 Benson & Hedges - 35p. 1 gallon of 4 star - 35p. 2 pints of Watney's Red Barrel 70p. (35p. each). That left 60 pence left over for a sophisticated meal on the way home. And you tell that to the young people of today and they don't believe you. Now, where's me trousers?

 

[jug]

You use 4star (leaded) petrol in a modern Alfa twinspark engine? Is it just me or is that mildly retarded?

it'll kill the cat. that'll be an expensive MOT every year.

4star was 98ron same as superunleaded. 5 star was 100ron.

 

[Munkul]

As I understand it, super petrols simply have a higher octane rating which has
a higher calorific value (getting out of my depth here) which in turn means they can produce higher levels of energy. For the majority of engines that only shows itself when it would be reaching the point where it would naturally be producing maximum power. In other words at or near peak revs. So unless you rev out in each gear there's not a lot of point.

not quite - even at high revs, the ignition advance will only advance so far before not giving any more, because of the ECU's limitations (like jug said)

dunno about the energy content, havent quite thought that through yet, but what a larger octane rating means, is that it can run at higher compression and quicker spark advance, but without detonating too quickly (knocking), which is what kills engines. Petrol is made up of a number of different sized hydrocarbons, and the shorter ones will produce energy (burn) faster than the larger ones. Octane is one of the longer ones found in petrol, and the ammount of octane is a good way of controlling the burn properties of the fuel.

with regard to the different ratings, i found this website useful: http://www.btinternet.com/~madmole/Reference/RONMONPON.html

 

[The Sultan]

the octane number is a measure of how much the fuel will resist detonation (pinking)

meaning the engine can hold off the spark for longer meaning the detonation will happen under much higher compression and at a much faster rate

there is not really much more energy in the fuel it's just that all the energy is used faster rather than some being wasted as the compression is getting lower as the piston flys down this will see an increase in power throughout the rev range but more considerable at the top

the alfa twin spark goes one step further setting off a small plug slightly before the predetermined time for the main plug to spark meaning on top of higher compression at point of detonation achieved from higher octane fuel it also starts a flame front moving from one end of the bore to the other compressing the mixture around the main plug even more

the alfa engine does all this and it works out separate times for all 8 plugs separately for each cylinder using the knock sensor to listen for pinking so it knows how far it can go

there for it will see more power from higher octane fuels as it can use them properly it does not have any pre-set stop points set to 95 ron or any of that rubish it will just use what it's got to the max:slayer:

 

[NumanR]

Oh God this will be a first me agreeing with Pip. Anyone who says the fuels dont make a difference is talking rubbish, I could tell where my wife had filled up by how the engine ran on my calibra.

Whats the point of tuning using rolling roads if a standard map is going to be ok for all cars? A standard map is not going to work on all cars. Engines due to cam wear, tight or loose valve clearances, production tolerances during boring the cylinder, different piston grades etc, all vary in their ability to run at different speeds and loads. Variable engine ignition timing and injector duration controlled by the ecu as a result of signals from the knock sensor, will advance the timing as much as possible until pinking is detected. If due to higher ron ratings I can maintain more advance through out the useable rev range, not max power or max revs, then my engine will run better, be more responsive and MAY be more fuel efficient.

Forget max power, think of useable power.

 

[jug]

will advance the timing as much as possible until pinking is detected.

that is only true if the engine management uses a "fully adaptive" approach to ignition timing, and very few cars do. most will only adapt up to the timing that suits the octane fuel they are designed to run on.

that is the whole argument behind the suggestion that super has no benefit for some cars. no one has denied this fact, shell even say it on their website, but they dont make a habit of publicising it because they dont want to put people off the more expensive brand.

 

[The Beard]

How come then (and this isn't an argument, just a desire for understanding) that in the days before engine management systems and anti-pollution measures, that low stressed engines from Datsun Sunnys to big American V8s ran on 2 star whereas those producing higher specific power outputs such as Ferraris, Jaguars and Lotus Elans needed 5 star. In fact, if we go back far enough, Spitfire fighters in WWII got a much needed power boost, in fact enough to give them another 30 mph, when 105 octane petrol became available.

 

[StevenRB45]

How come then (and this isn't an argument, just a desire for understanding) that in the days before engine management systems and anti-pollution measures, that low stressed engines from Datsun Sunnys to big American V8s ran on 2 star whereas those producing higher specific power outputs such as Ferraris, Jaguars and Lotus Elans needed 5 star. In fact, if we go back far enough, Spitfire fighters in WWII got a much needed power boost, in fact enough to give them another 30 mph, when 105 octane petrol became available.

Is it not that these engines although not being necessarily constantly adjusted by electronics as they are now were set via the settings of the carbs e.t.c. to run on a certain type of fuel and lower grades lead to issues. For example my dad had to run his mini on a mixture of 2 and 3 star to stop it back firing it was meant for 3 but would run on a bit of both in the tank.

 

[The Beard]

As far as I can remember, almost all normal, run of the mill cars made in Europe in the 60s and 70s ran on 4 star while almost without exception, U.S. and Japanese made cars ran on 2 star. I think this was the start of making cars more environmentally friendly. But the point is, a 6-litre V8 putting out 300 bhp makes 50 bhp per litre, as did a Datsun Sunny. A Jaguar E-type 3.8 litre put out 265, making 70 bhp/litre. How about a Lotus Elan 1.6 with 160 bhp? 100 bhp/litre. The sportier Jags, Lotuses, Ferraris and the like all seemed to use 5 star petro.

 

[Munkul]

to answer the Beard's question, even before electronic ignition systems came out the principles of engine tuning were the same. you could advance the ignition via the dizzy, lower the compression, install/advance the cams, flow the head, etc. The higher octane fuel just enabled the limits to be set higher, thus making more power.

i never knew lotus made a 100bhp/litre car back then, i thought that the ford/cosworth 2.0 turbo was the first production engine ever to reach 100bhp/litre

 

[The Sultan]

that is only true if the engine management uses a "fully adaptive" approach to ignition timing, and very few cars do. most will only adapt up to the timing that suits the octane fuel they are designed to run on.

that is the whole argument behind the suggestion that super has no benefit for some cars. no one has denied this fact, shell even say it on their website, but they dont make a habit of publicising it because they dont want to put people off the more expensive brand.

well i said your car jug and yes i agree even today not many cars use fully adaptive ignition atall

if the car does not have a knock sensor it definitely does not if it does it's hit and miss if it can or not

you also find that most jap cars are quite a bit behind in the engine engine department some even today still using albeit electronically controlled glorified distributors and grouped injection gaining power simply from not having the weight of European regulations on there shoulders

 

[jug]

How come then (and this isn't an argument, just a desire for understanding) that in the days before engine management systems and anti-pollution measures, that low stressed engines from Datsun Sunnys to big American V8s ran on 2 star whereas those producing higher specific power outputs such as Ferraris, Jaguars and Lotus Elans needed 5 star. In fact, if we go back far enough, Spitfire fighters in WWII got a much needed power boost, in fact enough to give them another 30 mph, when 105 octane petrol became available.

in those days the ignition advance could be manually set to suit the fuel, usually as easily as adjusting the angle that the dizzy sits at. at your age i'm sure you will remember doing that to your older (pre93) cars? if you stuck 5 star fuel in an older car there was no change unless you also adjusted the dizzy angle. if you then went back to 4 star is didnt run as well and you had to knock the dizzy back. many people had 2 marks on the dizzy so they could easily adjust for each fuel in less than a minute. that is what i did. during the week you use 4 star to save cash, then at the weekend you go racing other boyracers on 5 star.

those were the days, you could "remap" your own car for free. bloody ecu's and fuel injection came along and ruined my world.