Technical DMF failing

[The Panda Nut]

Im hoping to try and clarify what the symptoms of faiure are.

Noop 31875 miles has a problem. This all started 2 weeks after he wa 5 and the warranty expired. Hes 7 now. When you lift the clutch he moans. Souning like a mooing. Originally7 I felt it was clutch release issues. With more regular use this disappeared.
About 6 months ago there started horrid rattles of the dash top which I felt was behind the radio. Its not radio related but something near the rear left of it isnt happy. After much probing it clear just resting my hand on the screen demist vent stops this noise. A few weeks ago the mooing returned and is MUCH worse notable at low speeds changing gear. In addition there is a harshness a hard sound when accelerating. A lot would not notice this, but its clear to me something isnt right. On the basis that DMF is behind this I now provoke the DMF when its harsh, and by forcing rapid deceleration by hard gear changing, this does something and smoothness returns. There are no knocks and no more obvious vibration of a lower frequency which I was expecting. ALL SYMPTOMS DISAPPEAR when hes well warm. Im now pretty sure mooing is the first symptom and hard/ harshness the second one.

Hes booked for clutch, clutch hydraulics, release bearing, release forks, aux belt, diff oil and a new prop shaft in 2 weeks. I will get some more info and pics / videos of the removed parts when hes done. I think more info to help others identify symptoms would be useful. Im going for a one stop fix as I dont want more garage visits, ie if the prop comes off it will be replaced. Anyone with more info please add to this post so buyers can make use as well as fellow sufferers have better understanding. As the Dmf clutch is £1400 and the prop is c £400 so its a concern and good clear info may help others. Please dont add unrelated comment which will divert from the purpose of identifying symptoms. Happy (Sad in this case) Pandering.

 

[Panda IIs]

Im hoping to try and clarify what the symptoms of faiure are.

Noop 31875 miles has a problem. This all started 2 weeks after he wa 5 and the warranty expired. Hes 7 now. When you lift the clutch he moans. Souning like a mooing. Originally7 I felt it was clutch release issues. With more regular use this disappeared.
About 6 months ago there started horrid rattles of the dash top which I felt was behind the radio. Its not radio related but something near the rear left of it isnt happy. After much probing it clear just resting my hand on the screen demist vent stops this noise. A few weeks ago the mooing returned and is MUCH worse notable at low speeds changing gear. In addition there is a harshness a hard sound when accelerating. A lot would not notice this, but its clear to me something isnt right. On the basis that DMF is behind this I now provoke the DMF when its harsh, and by forcing rapid deceleration by hard gear changing, this does something and smoothness returns. There are no knocks and no more obvious vibration of a lower frequency which I was expecting. ALL SYMPTOMS DISAPPEAR when hes well warm. Im now pretty sure mooing is the first symptom and hard/ harshness the second one.

Hes booked for clutch, clutch hydraulics, release bearing, release forks, aux belt, diff oil and a new prop shaft in 2 weeks. I will get some more info and pics / videos of the removed parts when hes done. I think more info to help others identify symptoms would be useful. Im going for a one stop fix as I dont want more garage visits, ie if the prop comes off it will be replaced. Anyone with more info please add to this post so buyers can make use as well as fellow sufferers have better understanding. As the Dmf clutch is £1400 and the prop is c £400 so its a concern and good clear info may help others. Please dont add unrelated comment which will divert from the purpose of identifying symptoms. Happy (Sad in this case) Pandering.

Prop shaft at Des Shelly £280 (I know it says Mk2 but same part numbers) that sounds like an expensive clutch too (I'm guessing, hoping, these are your fitted prices?).

 

[jrkitching]

I would always recommend replacing the DMF on a TA if changing the clutch.

 

[Eltezz]

Mine went at 35,000 in pretty much the same way. Had the mooing for about six months. It was most noticeable for me when reversing up the slope to our garage. When the DMF went it was quite sudden, vibrations that are hard to describe but you just knew they were not right. Then it started rattling and I immediately booked it in with the Fiat Workshop. They confirmed the DMF was toast and many parts rusted causing the mooing. I now make a big effort to avoid any standing water if I can help it.

We have to accept that they don’t seem to last long on these cars…

 

[jrkitching]

We have to accept that they don’t seem to last long on these cars

DMF's are a service item, just like the clutch, and should be replaced together.

I'd agree that failure of either at 35,000 miles isn't what someone would expect from a modern car, particularly since having both changed by a garage won't leave you much change out of £1000. It's also a failure unlikely to be covered by most used vehicle warranties, and might not even be covered by Fiat's new car warranty.

Replacing with a solid flywheel doesn't seem to be a good option either; we've seen posts here from folks who've done that, and now need to replace most of the transmission. This would be particularly risky on any of the 4WD variants, which AIUI were always fitted with a DMF when new.

Something to bear in mind, and budget for, if considering the purchase of a used TA.

 

[steg750]

My DMF failure symptoms (at 39,500 miles) were a loud metallic rattling in low gears, and some vibration, which started pretty suddenly. I only drove it for 5 miles after that, to confirm the symptoms, before I did the repair work. Clutch was actually fine, although I replaced that too, but DMF was done.
The LUK DMF and clutch kit, including release bearing, was £360 from Autodoc (https://www.autodoc.co.uk/luk/23466828). No problems in 2,000 happy miles since the replacement.
Car was also jumping out of 5th gear occasionally, but that turned out to be unrelated and replacing the gearbox oil with fresh good quality oil of the correct spec has cured that.

Iain

 

[puntodad19]

Hi panda nut,

Make sure you get all replaced old parts particularly if you are paying for the new stuff. If repair done on warrantee fiat may want to hang onto the replaced parts.

New VW golf petrol engine dual mass flywheel failure was very noisey. Replaced under warrantee as the car was low mileage and young.

Start an additional thread to discuss solid f/wheel with friction Plate ( no trans shock/snatch sprung hub ) alternative.

40k miles from oe clutch system is rubbish design.

Seeing lots of down sides to panda ownership, well the modern ones...

 

[The Panda Nut]

Prop shaft at Des Shelly £280 (I know it says Mk2 but same part numbers) that sounds like an expensive clutch too (I'm guessing, hoping, these are your fitted prices?).


View attachment 482675

Yes. My centre bearing looks roughish so if the prop is off Ill have it changed now. I must speak to DS on monday. I really want my prop refurbed. Clutch DMF is about 1400 fitted. The Man in Norwich said 6.5hours for straight swap then the other bits on top. Im budgeting £2K to have everyting in sight done at one go. I want full confidence restored. I hope this silences the poorly cow livingin my bell housing.

 

[The Panda Nut]

I would always recommend replacing the DMF on a TA if changing the clutch.

Agreed. Im just pandering a perfectly good clutch needing changing because of the DMF. I know its only more money but Id be my life on the clutch wear being nearly nil.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Hi panda nut,

Make sure you get all replaced old parts particularly if you are paying for the new stuff. If repair done on warrantee fiat may want to hang onto the replaced parts.

New VW golf petrol engine dual mass flywheel failure was very noisey. Replaced under warrantee as the car was low mileage and young.

Start an additional thread to discuss solid f/wheel with friction Plate ( no trans shock/snatch sprung hub ) alternative.

40k miles from oe clutch system is rubbish design.

Seeing lots of down sides to panda ownership, well the modern ones...

Clutch is still good. DMF is my problem. I def will have the parts back. Imsending them FREEPOST to Fiat! I think im at the very earliest stage of failure. Im still half thinking of Px ing this car. a garage wouldnt notice if it was warm!

 

[steg750]

Yep my clutch was fine at 40k miles when I replaced the DMF but I changed it anyway as I bought the combined LUK kit. I figured that the vibes from a failing DMF are potentially putting some stress on the clutch and release bearing and, given that the gearbox is a pain to remove on the 4x4, I opted to do the clutch too.
Iain

 

[The Panda Nut]

Mine went at 35,000 in pretty much the same way. Had the mooing for about six months. It was most noticeable for me when reversing up the slope to our garage. When the DMF went it was quite sudden, vibrations that are hard to describe but you just knew they were not right. Then it started rattling and I immediately booked it in with the Fiat Workshop. They confirmed the DMF was toast and many parts rusted causing the mooing. I now make a big effort to avoid any standing water if I can help it.

We have to accept that they don’t seem to last long on these cars…

You just confirmed Im right to change it. The mooings been going on 22 months. Dash rattles (intermittent) about 4 to 6 months, harshness started 4 weeks or so back. This time it will get no consideration. Clearly its not worth it.

Im going to ask for the bell housing to be given a smear of silicon before reassembly to seal it. I think floods startrd the mooing noises too so sound advice.

 

[The Panda Nut]

I hope this clearly identifiest stages and the symptoms of DMF failure. I will add photos and video of the old parts in april.

ITS CLEAR DONT BUY A PANDA MK4 TA 4X4 MAKING MOOING NOISES.

All this being said I still love this car.