Technical Disable Skyroof. (Deckchair, HELP!)

[Suicide_Jockey]

Question.
Has anyone cut a hole on their dash? Whats the best way to cut the hole I need to insert the switch?

Generally speaking, a holesaw would be the best tool (Think of it as a "cirular hacksaw) :-
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hole_saw"]Hole saw - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/Filerill_arbor_holesaw_2.jpg" class="image"><img alt="" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/45/Drill_arbor_holesaw_2.jpg/220px-Drill_arbor_holesaw_2.jpg"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/4/45/Drill_arbor_holesaw_2.jpg/220px-Drill_arbor_holesaw_2.jpg[/ame]
You can usually pickup a reasonable [sub-£5] Multi-size adjustable one from many Tool/Car-Accessory shops, etc which will work fine on most dashboard plastics (or LIGHT "backing metalwork"_ ...

... However, IF the spot where you wish to drill has a SUBSTANTIAL metal inner-backing, you would probably need a better quality hardened-tip type (like a hacksaw-for-steel) to cut through ... OR alternatively, draw a circle where you want the hole, then drill a series of adjoining-small-holes around the circumference with a small drill bit, then use a dremel to join those holes & clean up the edges.

EDIT :- Forgot to state the obvious ... Don't forget to ensure there are NO wires, etc BEHIND the area you are cutting into.

Personally, as you are intending to use that airbag type switch as a simple on/off (non-lock) mode ... I would have suggested a smaller & less bulky rocker-type switch such as this :-
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/12V-Black-rou...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item4837519630
OR this (IF you a "roof power is OFF" reminder light) :-
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/12V-Red-Illum...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item4838c2948c

 

[Davren]

I generally use a step or cone drill bit for cutting holes in plastic or metal. Produces a very clean cut and available in various size ranges.
.

 

[fletch101101]

i used both the cone and hole saw but as a rule of thuumb use the hole saw as the cones have a habbit of pulling and biting, the hole saws also give a cleaner cut

i might be missing something but why not a little rocker switch?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/12-ROUND-12V-...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item5ad4f836e1

no fafing with keys, resistors, MASSIVE GAPPING HOLES IN YOUR DASH!!

think about when you come to sell it on, the next person might not want a DIY dash airbag switch

any switch i put on mine i put in the top glove boxe where it is easy to change the lining when i come to sell

 

[Shadeyman]

A rocker switch means anyone can operate the isolation switch. That sort of defeats my objective as I want to be in control. If the switch is controlled by the ignition key(thanks Davren) only I(or the driver) can operate the isolation switch. So the blame lies firmly with the driver if the Skyroof is opened while bike racks or roof box is in place.(smash)

Hole saw is my choice, thanks eveyone. I'm hoping it doesn't snag on the stuff covering the plastic dash.

 

[mzhussein]

id use a cone bit...without doubt.....had to make up a series of plastic boxes at work to be mounted outside, and the cone bit made MUCH cleaner hole than the hole saw, and was a damn sight quicker...

 

[fletch101101]

just abit of wet and dry on the hole and it be fine pluss it better than the cone drill pulling you too deep and making a giant hole

 

[Shadeyman]

I eventually got around to installing the switch today. Things didn't go to plan.

Decided to double check everything before cutting a whole in the side of the dash.

I had already soldered in a long length of cable in so all I had to do was cut it and solder in the switch. I cut the cable, turned on the ignition, tried the Sky Roof.

It Opened.

The live supply(blue wire) to the switch must only be used when resetting the Sky Roof, it does not supply power to its motors.

So I'll now be doing as mzhussein suggested and use a 30 amp relay to switch the supply from fuse 46. I'll still be using the old airbag switch to control the relay preventing anyone but the driver from operating the Sky Roof.

 

[vladof]

I believe that's a first for the Stilo, trying to do something to the car and actually not causing the part to fail. :hug:

 

[Shadeyman]

I must admit, after what everyone had said I was dubious about messing with the Skyroof. Fortunately it all seemed very robust, no errors, from the car anyway, 1 or two on my behalf.

Regular 50 mile trips with a roof box and mountain bikes on means I will eventually mess up and use the Skyroof causing it to self destruct. Got to find a way of protecting the car from myself.

 

[Davren]

The live supply(blue wire) to the switch must only be used when resetting the Sky Roof, it does not supply power to its motors.

So I'll now be doing as mzhussein suggested and use a 30 amp relay to switch the supply from fuse 46. I'll still be using the old airbag switch to control the relay preventing anyone but the driver from operating the Sky Roof.

Assume you're referring to the blue power supply wire that goes to pin 4 of the switch?

Have you investigated the function of the wire from pin 1 of the switch to pin 1 of the motor?
.

 

[Shadeyman]

Hello Dave.

I'm sure the blue wire went to pin 6 of the switch.

Yes I did check all 6 of the wires, only the blue one was live. Why, do you think its possible I chose the wrong wire?

Edit
I just took a look at that wiring diagram. The live supply from fuse 46 goes direct to the Skyroof motor, not to the switch. So all the switch is doing is grounding 1 of 4 wires(the 4 positions of the Skyroof). If I put my airbag switch in the ground wire from the switch, pin 1(grey wire, cheers Dave) I should be able to acheive what I first tried to do, isolate the Skyroof but leave the blind active?

Someone check to see if I'm right before I go hacking at the wires again ...

 

[Davren]

According to this wiring diagram, the blue wire from pin 6 of the roof motor (N35) only connects to pin 3 of the blind motor (N34). The blind motor has a Body Computer controlled power supply on pin 7 from fuse F45 and permanent earth on pin 11 from earth point C20. I suspect the blue wire is just a high or low signal from the roof motor to enable the blind motor.

The roof motor has a Body Computer controlled power supply on pin 4 and a permanent earth on pin 2 so I'm thinking the motor must be switched on by high or low signals from the roof switch (H60) and not by interrupting it's power supply. This theory is further confirmed because a signal from BC pin H23 to roof motor pin 3 can disable the roof above a certain road speed.

The whole point of this is that I think it's possible to use your key switch without a relay if we can find the correct signal wire to break it into. Currently, I think the switch should be in the wire from roof switch pin 1 to roof motor pin 1 shown as grey (H) in the diagram.

To proceed, I'd need to know:

Whether your wiring colours and pins are the same as in this diagram.

Are all the wires to the roof switch and motor the same size or are some of them very thin wires (which ones) this would confirm they are only signal wires.

What happens to the wire from roof switch pin 1 to roof motor pin 1 under different conditions. If you can't get to the actual contact points, you would need an insulation piercing probe or a probe with a sharp point to measure the voltage of the wire with ignition on and off and with ignition on and operating the switch through all it's 5 positions.

Of course, the easy way may be to use the relay on the red power supply wire from fuse F46 to pin 4 of the roof motor.
.

 

[Shadeyman]

Pin 1, grey wire. Thats what I think too.

Its 9.14pm, I could save us both a little time and just cut the grey wire. :devil:

If we're wrong I'll solder it back together in the morning.

If we're right I'll fit the switch.

 

[Davren]

If you've got a DC current clamp, you could measure the current in it while operating the roof. If not, I can't see any harm being done by cutting it. Would be good news if cutting it disabled the roof.

You obviously realise whichever way you do it, if the key switch is left off, the roof won't operate by the remote control.

 

[Shadeyman]

The grey wire is the right one and yes I'm sure your correct about it carrying a signal and not a supply because if I reconnect the wires while turning the Skyroof switch, nothing happens for atleast 10 seconds. Would that be the computers reconnecting to each other before they can do anything? Not really a problem as the ignition will have to be turned off when operating the new Skyroof Switch, because it can only be operated with the ignition key inserted.

The Skyroof not working off the remote when the Skyroof Switch is left turned off is exactly what I want. Top box and bike rack left on the car and I sit on the keys, the Skyroof opens and BANG! Skyroof jams on the top box or bike rack and I have a big repair bill.

Dave, I've said it before and I'll say it again, you are an absolute hive of information. Thanks very much for your help.

Anyone with a Skyroof now has a way of isolating it if they want to use original FIAT roof bars.

Attached a pic of the grey wire I cut. Not very thick considering the 20 amp supply from the fuse. The cable on a pair of Sony Ericcson mobile earphones is thicker.

 

[Davren]

Attached a pic of the grey wire I cut. Not very thick considering the 20 amp supply from the fuse. The cable on a pair of Sony Ericcson mobile earphones is thicker.

That's the point I was making above, the grey wire doesn't carry any heavy current, only a few mA as a signal to enable the motor.

 

[Shadeyman]

Even better, now I'm sure the switch will cope with the amps.

 

[Shadeyman]

When there's a load attached to the FIAT roof bars opening the Skyroof would be catastrophic so I permanently installed a switch to disable the Skyroof this morning. It works perfectly, allowing the blind to function but preventing the Skyfoor operating. I took a few photo's but they don't really show the switch doing anything so as soon as I get chance I'll upload a video of it in operation.

 

[Shadeyman]

Haven't had time to sort a video so here's a couple of photo's of the airbag switch I installed to use to isolate the Skyroof.

 

[vladof]

That looks nice and professional.

You should put a sticker or some kind of label in there just to show what it does and then post them over the internet saying yours came with a skyroof disable switch. Everyone will be wondering why they didn't get it.