Tuning Coupe 2.0 16v turbo engine into Panda

[alexbpl]

Hi everyone

I've been thinking about it for a while, but a friend of mine is selling their Coupe 16vt and now I really fancy the challenge.

I have shelved the Subaru idea, even though it was achieveable, but with with cars not being my only interest I saw a giant financial hole and a never ending project destined for ebay! (Plus insurance was going to be hard but for some reason isn't too bad for a Coupe conversion)

Anyway


Good Points:

• FWD Layout
• 195bhp stock (240bhp easily achievable with stage 1 kit)
• Coupe gearbox has LSD
• Could use Coupe brakes and various other family upgrades if they happen to fit
• Seen a 16vt conversion in a Punto GT, so the conversion isn't entirely impossible in a Panda.
• Dont confuse with the GIANT 20vt engine which is about 6 feet wide and will never fit in a Panda
• Would buy car as donor vehicle and sell all remaning parts. Might even pay for itself in the end!

Bad Points:

• Never been done before so would be an extreme learning curve about what works and what doesn't
• Cooling could be an issue as a big front mounted intercooler leaves little room for a radiator
• Coupe engine is going to be a fair bit heavier than the 1242 16v engine which therefore means uprated shocks and maybe even custom front springs made a few kg's heavier.

Does anybody have any experiance with Coupe 16v turbo's?

Also will it actually fit with regard to where Coupe engines and gearbox's mount?

Obviously it wont be a case of taking the mount of the Punto engine and fitting it on the Coupe like it was for the Punto conversion (oh god I wish that was the case!). But where do the engine & boxs' mount?

Any help appreciated

 

[tenpastnine]

That would be a nuts panda. :yum:

Do it:worship:!

Sorry i cant help i know nothing

 

[lewey]

Hi Alex. Long time no speak. And there was me waiting expectantly to see a blue and gold Panda with 555 on the doors and a 4 pot boxer turbo slapped on the bonnet...

I have experience of that powertrain and I am here to save you from peril. I have owned a few Lancia Thema LS Turbo's which used the same stuff as the Coupe, albeit tuned to 205BHP in that application. It secures at three points on a SUBFRAME that you don't have. This means all the mounts are near the bottom of the car sat in/on the subframe. There is then a fourth "stay" that is a bar attached from the cylinder head to driver's side suspension turret to stop the engine moving around too much.

Anyway, it's too big surely? Tooooo long. It just won't fit as it is I wouldn't have thought. Get your measuring tape out! Brakes use the more common FIAT bolt hole layout, which is not common to our cars of course, so will require a fairly serious bracket (ask Damon) and 15" or 16" wheels depending on year which will be a pain as we all know.

In terms of weight, you are probably talking twice. You will certainly have to have custom springs and dampers made, you'll probably find it cheaper to try to retro-fit hubs from another model, perhaps the Coupe donor so you can use suspension units from that. All of which will mean custom suspension pick up points to accept these as the Panda design doesn't give you a chance. In fact you are going to need a subframe made really.

My advice, although you didn't ask for it:
You need to find a lighter solution. Otherwise you need to find a different platform. You seem to be craving insane power. Therefore you only have one choice IMO, forced induction of a small engine. You need to wait for a T-jet to crash near your house or get an Uno Turbo engine or something. 180BHP is easily achievable with either of these units.

Or maybe just get an Uno Turbo!

 

[alexbpl]

Lewey!

Indeed long time no speak, hope all is well

Thanks for the help on the engine conversion idea, I did have a slight worry already about the mounting of the engine after seeing one in a Punto, but like you say, I'll have to get my tape measure out!

I do want some more power though thats for sure. I like the idea of turbocharged smaller engines and I think someone actually did turbocharge a 1242 16v engine in a Panda but I can't find the thread or pictures anymore.

Agree about the Uno turbo part too!

Cheers,

Alex

 

[goodgirl156]

looking at the engine bay in the panda, and looking at the photos of my old 16vt. It simply will not fit.
Its VERY tight in the punto GT and that conversion was done with custom mounts and drive shafts (I think, long time since read thread)
If you want more power the more sensible option is the 1.4gt turbo block although that will need mounts and a lot of engineering.
Its also worth noting that
a)the panda was never designed for anything close to this level of power and will handle like a brick on ice
b)There not exactly 5 star n-cap cars, all that extra power is a resipy for trouble

 

[alexbpl]

Yeah it already handles like a brick on ice with the 16v conversion. Especially if it's wet But I'm more interested in straight lines with this conversion.

I met the owner of the Punto-coupe conversion in France a few months ago and had a good chat with him. He said he made up some sandwhich plates for the mountings and did the usual cut, sleeve & weld job with the driveshafts.

hmm a few people are having size doubts, maybe I've tricked myself into thinking it will fit - I need to measure one!! lol

 

[firstcar-Y10]

hate to say it but if someone's selling a coupe turbo, why not try using that pwerplant in...say.. a coupe body. Would be a dead easy fit (literally no work at all), still pretty quick and if you crave more power leaves time, space, and money to spend tweaking the engine.

 

[lewey]

Another suggestion. Use the Coupe gear in a Tipo. The Coupe was based on the Tipo/Bravo design so lots of stuff will just fit!

Been done very well here.

Post #9 of that thread pretty much tells you all you need to know. Hopefully We'll see you at Gaydon with this done then?

 

[CLXCraig]

I'm with lewey, the smallest car you can realistically get a 16vT engine into will be a tipo. but they weight a ton so ups and downs on it.

 

[Luke P]

Hi Alex,

I noticed a 150 odd BHP supercharged 500 at Brooklands AI with the bonnet up and the lump looked suspiciously like it'd fit into a Panda! I think it was a 16v 1.4 but can't remember what the induction set up was... There was an old thread in the Punto section about supercharging a 1242 (which blew up shortly after completion)... Looked like fun. Have you investigated the supercharging route? It seems like it could be expensive but have some advantages like no turbo lag. Hmmmmmm...............

Luke.

 

[lewey]

Yeah.. JCR Racing do a kit for the 1.4 FIRE.

Doesn't seem worth it to me when you can tune a T-Jet engine, like in the Abarth 500 to way more power with standard FIAT parts. The T-jet turbos are so small, you really don't feel lag, even when town driving. Things have really come on in the turbo driveability department.

 

[Luke P]

Sounds good to me!!

 

[maddogmorg]

16v Twin cam in a panda would need you to be VERY handy with a welder and fabricating a new frame for the entire front end, a better route would be to try mounting the engine in the back of the car, as putting 200bhp through the front wheels of something so light would be a complete waste, and with ALL the weight at the front it'll just head straight on at every bend.

Also the 16v despite being 'only' a 4 cylinder isn't that much smaller than the 20v. certainly not that much space left under the bonnet of a tipo 16v.