General Coolant loss on 1.2 Panda

[DoddsyFRS]

Hi all.
Our daughters first car and it drives fine but I’ve noticed the coolant level drops to min on the expansion tank. So I’ve been topping it up. It’s not taking much maybe a cupful.
When we got the car the coolant looked gunky so I dropped the water and refilled. So I’m guessing it wasn’t being topped up before we got it.
I’ve run it up to temp, the gauge sits in the middle. No obvious leaks anywhere and the fan flicks in and out ok. No sign of head gasket issues.
Thoughts anyone?
Thanks
Paul.

 

[varesecrazy]

Hi

Orange coolant or Blue..?

My old panda was on Blue.. no crusty deposits on hoses to be seen

It turned out the heater matrix was cracked letting water into the cabin..

Didnt discover that until it took out the head gasket though

Look for signs of damp under the dash..on the carpets



Its possible your level changes are just the car 'burbing itself'... shifting small pockets of air as it is driven..


But worth checking the matrix and hoses in general

 

[DoddsyFRS]

Hi

Orange coolant or Blue..?

My old panda was on Blue.. no crusty deposits on hoses to be seen

It turned out the heater matrix was cracked letting water into the cabin..

Didnt discover that until it took out the head gasket though

Look for signs of damp under the dash..on the carpets



Its possible your level changes are just the car 'burbing itself'... shifting small pockets of air as it is driven..


But worth checking the matrix and hoses in general

It’s the orange coolant … all inside the cabin is dry .. that’s worth a thought about air locks.
I will check the carpets again.
Cheers.

 

[Dodgy Geezer]

Hi all.
Our daughters first car and it drives fine but I’ve noticed the coolant level drops to min on the expansion tank. So I’ve been topping it up. It’s not taking much maybe a cupful.
When we got the car the coolant looked gunky so I dropped the water and refilled. So I’m guessing it wasn’t being topped up before we got it.
I’ve run it up to temp, the gauge sits in the middle. No obvious leaks anywhere and the fan flicks in and out ok. No sign of head gasket issues.
Thoughts anyone?
Thanks
Paul.

If water seems to be disappearing, you need to look for where it is going.

1 - check inside the car under the dashboard (already mentioned) for leaks inside the car.
2 - park the car somewhere dry where you can see leaks on the ground, and look at the ground after the car has been parked overnight for hose leaks outside the car.
3 - open up the oil filler cap and look for signs of a white jelly-like substance. If you see any, this is a sign of water mixing in with the oil and creating an emulsion (oftern called mayonnaise). This is bad - it suggests that the head gasket has blown and water is leaking into the engine. It will need prompt attention.

 

[DoddsyFRS]

If water seems to be disappearing, you need to look for where it is going.

1 - check inside the car under the dashboard (already mentioned) for leaks inside the car.
2 - park the car somewhere dry where you can see leaks on the ground, and look at the ground after the car has been parked overnight for hose leaks outside the car.
3 - open up the oil filler cap and look for signs of a white jelly-like substance. If you see any, this is a sign of water mixing in with the oil and creating an emulsion (oftern called mayonnaise). This is bad - it suggests that the head gasket has blown and water is leaking into the engine. It will need prompt attention.

Yes there is nothing obvious regarding the head gasket blown no mayo anywhere. I’ve run it up and no drips , it’s parked in the garage on a painted floor and no puddles or drips.
There’s no coolant stains under the bonnet.
The temp gauge goes halfway and stays there although a few weeks ago I noticed it fluctuating going cooler then normal for about ten miles then stable ever since. So maybe there is air in the system .

 

[Dodgy Geezer]

Yes there is nothing obvious regarding the head gasket blown no mayo anywhere. I’ve run it up and no drips , it’s parked in the garage on a painted floor and no puddles or drips.
There’s no coolant stains under the bonnet.
The temp gauge goes halfway and stays there although a few weeks ago I noticed it fluctuating going cooler then normal for about ten miles then stable ever since. So maybe there is air in the system .

When you run the car with full heater on, do you get a strong regular heat, or does it vary?

 

[jrkitching]

Another common leak point is the metal pipe running along the front of the engine; these are known for corroding and can weep for quite a while before giving up completely. Perhaps best checked by looking from underneath.

Don't ignore this - the 1.2 is prone to HG failure if run with low coolant, and you may not get any warning on the temperature gauge before this happens.

 

[DoddsyFRS]

When you run the car with full heater on, do you get a strong regular heat, or does it vary?

Well it’s not red hot but adequate and don’t seem to fluctuate .

 

[DoddsyFRS]

Another common leak point is the metal pipe running along the front of the engine; these are known for corroding and can weep for quite a while before giving up completely. Perhaps best checked by looking from underneath.

Don't ignore this - the 1.2 is prone to HG failure if run with low coolant, and you may not get any warning on the temperature gauge before this happens.

Ok thanks for the heads up … if I had strong suspicion of the head gasket I’d do something about it but until then I’m reluctant to throw money at an £800 car if it may not have failed. It’s a runabout for her to learn in. Saying that I like things right on a car so I may get it looked at.
Cheers

 

[RalphM]

Have you thought about the expansion bottle cap depending on the
design could you run the outlet into a bottle see if the coolant ends up
it there.

 

[Txuchin]

The coolant pump shaft may be another leak location. The leak occurs only while the engine is running and the heat evaporates the coolant leaving hardly any trace.

 

[koalar]

Once bleed assuming a 1.1/1.2

0010T20 ENGINE COOLANT - CHANGE - Fiat - NUOVA 500 - eLearn - 4CarData

The coolant level

Should stay the same week in week out


If its not its either loosing it via an external leak, into sump, through the exhaust or air is entering the system expanding and burping some out.

all need sorting ASAP

I guess there might be a clue here
“coolant looked gunky”

Common fail points are different

Depending on LHD/RHD, year, petrol or diesel

We are in the dark at the moment

Did you buy the car privately or through a garage. A garage can test for leaks very quickly by pressuring the system

 

[koalar]

you may not get any warning on the temperature gauge before this happens.

Correct

The coolant sensor is at the top of the engine

If there’s no coolant over it, it never register an overheating event

 

[eeeno]

Isn't the range between min and max quite small? I've discovered that coolant level should be in the middle or at max on warm engine and when cold it's close to minimum. Does the level keep going lower if you let it be at minimum? Overfilling it will just make it leak out of the cap a little. Sometimes bad pressure cap can be an issue. If the level doesn't go lower from minimum when cold, and no leaks are found, it may not be as bad as it looks. It's just got room to expand.

 

[koalar]

Isn't the range between min and max quite small? I've discovered that coolant level should be in the middle or at max on warm engine and when cold it's close to minimum. Does the level keep going lower if you let it be at minimum? Overfilling it will just make it leak out of the cap a little. Sometimes bad pressure cap can be an issue. If the level doesn't go lower from minimum when cold, and no leaks are found, it may not be as bad as it looks. It's just got room to expand.

There enough room for the 6% expansion from the MAX mark and up the neck. If everything is working fine, nothing is burped out

These cars (RHD)are meant to be filled to the MAX mark as per owner manual and elearn

Running anywhere near the MIN mark is very dangerous. It’s well bellow the heater matrix hoses. The circulation is altered and airlocks are possible. Cars with the expansion tank on the side of the radiator

If yours is burping out anything over half. Air or gas’s is entering the system and when this heats and expands it pushing some out.
LHD may be different

I have a 2010 and only check it from cold. Now it’s been fixed always at MAX month in month out, not that’s always been the case

 

[koalar]

Isn't the range between min and max quite small? I've discovered that coolant level should be in the middle or at max on warm engine and when cold it's close to minimum. Does the level keep going lower if you let it be at minimum? Overfilling it will just make it leak out of the cap a little. Sometimes bad pressure cap can be an issue. If the level doesn't go lower from minimum when cold, and no leaks are found, it may not be as bad as it looks. It's just got room to expand.

Mmmm Finland

LHD

Might be different

 

[eeeno]

Does this Panda have the same type of expansion tank as 1.2 and 1.4 Grandepunto, later Stilo model, Bravo, Linea? If yes, then my idea might be worth trying if no leaks are found. Some people have had same issues and worries and after my response they found out that actually no coolant is lost after minimum level and it isn't really being lost at all, only excess goes somewhere. I've had it for years like this, zero issues.

 

[koalar]

The coolant pump shaft may be another leak location. The leak occurs only while the engine is running and the heat evaporates the coolant leaving hardly any trace.

Possible pressure test is the quick diagnostic test.

A pin hole in the steel radiator side plates are in my experience very common. More so than the pipe across the front. They leak quite quickly to this level then much slower


There is a channel at front that fills up first. It rarely drips on to the floor until it gets worse

 

[koalar]

Does this Panda have the same type of expansion tank as 1.2 and 1.4 Grandepunto, later Stilo model, Bravo, Linea? If yes, then my idea might be worth trying if no leaks are found. Some people have had same issues and worries and after my response they found out that actually no coolant is lost after minimum level and it isn't really being lost at all, only excess goes somewhere. I've had it for years like this, zero issues.

We have these in the UK

I have own 3x pandas all run close to MAX with no problems

 

[koalar]

Does this Panda have the same type of expansion tank as 1.2 and 1.4 Grandepunto, later Stilo model, Bravo, Linea? If yes, then my idea might be worth trying if no leaks are found. Some people have had same issues and worries and after my response they found out that actually no coolant is lost after minimum level and it isn't really being lost at all, only excess goes somewhere. I've had it for years like this, zero issues.

No not on my RHD versions

Completely different
(05 1.2 dynamic, 06 1.1 active, 10 1.2 eco)

Whether there’s any exceptions I don’t know