Panda (Classic) Classic Panda 100HP Sleeper

[sbrads]

It's good to see a 1.4 16v conversion with the original ECU and fly-by-wire. I'm halfway doing the same and struggling with wiring at the moment so have wondered if I might be better doing the more common Punto throttle body version. Now I've seen it can be done I'll persevere.

I'm trying to match up the engine loom of a 2004 Stilo to a 2002 Seicento loom. Not exactly the same but I expect there's a lot of similarities.

Can you please point me in the right direction for wiring diagrams?

I plan to try feeding the ECU with the Seicento immobiliser circuit but expecting I'll probably have to use the Stilo circuit somehow (saved all this from the donor car). How did you tackle this with yours?

Thanks
Steve

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

I'm trying to match up the engine loom of a 2004 Stilo to a 2002 Seicento loom. Not exactly the same but I expect there's a lot of similarities.

I suspect there are a lot less than you'd hope. Stilo is canbus, Seicento isn't

 

[sbrads]

I managed to get my engine running by using the Stilo immobiliser circuit. As this needs the Stilo key to run it I did away with the Seicento key and replaced ignition with a switch and push button start too.
It's not yet in the car (running on the floor) but when it is I'll post something about the project. 1st April I aim to be on the road.

 

[lewey]

Well done for getting it to work. I presume you have been using wiring diagrams from an eLearn DVD? It's true that the seicento immobiliser was never going to work. They serve different electrical functions.

I did my integration by removing all the wires I didn't need from the loom and leaving the rest. Obviously takes a while and helps if you can read and understand wiring diagrams. The descriptions given with the diagrams on eLearn are very good actually and tells you everything you need to know.

You are the first person I know to have started a canbus FIAT engine outside of the original car, so we'll done. Maybe I'm out of touch and everyone is doing this now?

 

[Liquid Knight]

I don't mean turbo'ing a 1.2 or 1.4, I mean turbo'ing my original 750 engine. Its only an idea thus far but I think it could work. I'd get less power than a 1.2 probably and it'd be more work but then I'd have something individual, more to point I think it'd be a fun project. :slayer:

You'd be best with a blow through turbo set up using a self balancing carb' (a sealed SU or Renault 5 GT one) and a small turbo from a Smart car. Make an adapter plate to go from the standard manifold to the Smart turbo or if you can weld cast iron cut the flanges of both manifolds and weld the two together. An oil feed kit from the pump at the filter to feed the turbo using a universal oil cooler kit should be enough. Also with boost you won't get a vacuum to advance the distributor so some kind of pointless conversion or black box dizzy conversion may be required.

When the 769 explodes you can upgrade any of the FIRE engine range but keep the 750 gearbox as the ratio's are awesome.

 

[Liquid Knight]

Sorry. Back on topic I'm looking at a Bravo T-jet in my local breakers as a potential donor for my next Panda. The trouble is all the crap that comes with it. ABS this and limp mode that. Is there a stand alone ecu option from the Panda 100hp that could be adapted to run boost. I'd like to be able to splice the loom and keep it as simple as possible. As soon as the factory ecu notices sensors are missing it'll never run properly again.

It's a Bravo 150 t-jet six speed. I was hoping to lift the lump and box in one go as I'm pretty certain the Panda five speed won't like it much.

Failing that I have a far simpler Bravo HLX with a GenIII 128 engine and 16V head. Unlike the Punto HGT and Barchetta the Bravo has conventional power steering and AC so I can bin those pumps and fit a low boost supercharger from a BMW MINI and injectors from a Fiat Coupe to get the air/fuel ratio back on track.

Compared to the 1.4 turbo weight and space will be the issues but toque and simplicity the advantage. The GenIII 128 should have the drive flange for an X-1/9 distributor so I could in theory bin the injectors completely and use bike carb's if there isn't enough room for forced induction.

What do you guys think?

 

[Didge3]

You'd be best with a blow through turbo set up using a self balancing carb' (a sealed SU or Renault 5 GT one) and a small turbo from a Smart car. Make an adapter plate to go from the standard manifold to the Smart turbo or if you can weld cast iron cut the flanges of both manifolds and weld the two together. An oil feed kit from the pump at the filter to feed the turbo using a universal oil cooler kit should be enough. Also with boost you won't get a vacuum to advance the distributor so some kind of pointless conversion or black box dizzy conversion may be required.

When the 769 explodes you can upgrade any of the FIRE engine range but keep the 750 gearbox as the ratio's are awesome.

You're quoting something I wrote nearly 3 years ago, I did look into it at the time, it would've been quite expensive and fruitless really because it would've never been powerful, fun yes but not powerful. Anyway I don't own the car anymore so no turbo 750 for me

 

[Liquid Knight]

You're quoting something I wrote nearly 3 years ago,

Ooops. I thought it was your joining up date.


Still who was the kid who wanted to put a K&N filter on a 750? He might find it useful.

 

[sbrads]

Thanks. It wasn't easy, kind of obvious once you know, but took ages to figure out all the wiring and ended up just ignoring quite a few wires in the end as I just couldn't find them in diagrams. The Seicento wiring diagrams were good (a CD I got off eBay a few years ago) but seemed not to show all the wires on the ECU. The Stilo diagrams were from this file I found from Googling for a while. fiat_stilo_multilenguaje.zip
Google that file name and you'll find it for download.

 

[lewey]

Sorry. Back on topic I'm looking at a Bravo T-jet in my local breakers as a potential donor for my next Panda. The trouble is all the crap that comes with it. ABS this and limp mode that. Is there a stand alone ecu option from the Panda 100hp that could be adapted to run boost. I'd like to be able to splice the loom and keep it as simple as possible. As soon as the factory ecu notices sensors are missing it'll never run properly again.

It's a Bravo 150 t-jet six speed. I was hoping to lift the lump and box in one go as I'm pretty certain the Panda five speed won't like it much.

Failing that I have a far simpler Bravo HLX with a GenIII 128 engine and 16V head. Unlike the Punto HGT and Barchetta the Bravo has conventional power steering and AC so I can bin those pumps and fit a low boost supercharger from a BMW MINI and injectors from a Fiat Coupe to get the air/fuel ratio back on track.

Compared to the 1.4 turbo weight and space will be the issues but toque and simplicity the advantage. The GenIII 128 should have the drive flange for an X-1/9 distributor so I could in theory bin the injectors completely and use bike carb's if there isn't enough room for forced induction.

What do you guys think?

Do you want to start a new thread with this contents so it can be discussed there? Seems like lots of very specific questions as well as general. If you throw in a shout to lewey, I'll chime in.

 

[lewey]

Thanks. It wasn't easy, kind of obvious once you know, but took ages to figure out all the wiring and ended up just ignoring quite a few wires in the end as I just couldn't find them in diagrams. The Seicento wiring diagrams were good (a CD I got off eBay a few years ago) but seemed not to show all the wires on the ECU. The Stilo diagrams were from this file I found from Googling for a while. fiat_stilo_multilenguaje.zip
Google that file name and you'll find it for download.

Stilo eLearn also available from FiatForum:
https://www.fiatforum.com/downloads.php?do=download&downloadid=345

I presume you have retained the body ECU and the canbus connections between them and junked anything that doesn't look like it goes to engine ECU? Have you managed to keep the dash working?

 

[Liquid Knight]

Thanks lewey if I get the project up and running I'll be sure to let you all know. I have a black Panda van and Coupe' 16V turbo restoration to go with my Fantasia and when the Bravo runs out of M.O.T I imagine there's more work to do there.

 

[pandaman56]

Very impressive, and love the footage !

 

[Maaad Rob]

I just wanna say this is the perfect sleeper, no one expects this to be even remotely quick judging by the looks. Just superb.

How much heavier is the steering with the LSD?

 

[lewey]

Thanks. I removed the LSD a year or so after I fitted it. It’s in one of the many posts on here, I’m sure. It was tricky to drive in town sometimes because of “too much” grip coupled with weighting up the steering at low speeds, particularly while accelerating hard. Turning right out of junctions, I could find myself on the other side of the road, having failed to straighten the steering. The car was for every day commuting, so I wanted to relax a bit! I work from home now, so the car is not used. I’m considering what to do with it/it’s powertrain.

 

[Maaad Rob]

I've already made the steering heavier with hard, wider tyres and a short rack, any more and it would reach the point of PITA. Without power steering this sounds like more trouble than it's worth.

 

[Sjvarley]

From your inspiration I built the Gt100 4x4. Ment to thank you before

 

[lewey]

Cool. Looks ace!

 

[DaveMcT]

I wasn't ragging it I suppose, but I was driving it as fast as it will go. As it is an under-steering old hector, it looks fairly civilised when driving as fast as possible! The driver of the racing Imp wasn't very good in my opinion. Bad on the brakes and very eager on the power. He took a whole session to catch me with a supercharged rear-engined sprint car and then did what you saw.

Ive just seen this thread so you may well have have sorted the understeer. The old Austin Mini has the same problem. The manufacturer added positive camber to lighten the steering causing understeer. The back end was glued so they added positive to the back so that understeered to match.
The fix was longer bottom suspension arms at the front. People cut them and rewelded with a spacer and reinforcement.

The Fiat bottom arms can probably be modded in similar ways.

 

[Tomeno]

Existe algun hilo de un panda 141 con motor t-jet??