General Cinq track car

[Lenny_mc]

inspried by big fiat and watching some of his vids, I have decided to turn the cinq into a track only car. I would like to get it down to about 650 kgs (is this possible?) and have it running about 80 - 90 hp with a good torquey motor.

The spec i have at the moment is an 1108 with p75 cam, mckrich chip, apex full kit, omp disks and pads and a supersprint back box. I have a full set of bushes and braided lines to go on. I plan on getting a full exhaust system, de cat, gsr, bigger TB and a 1242 engine with some remap. I would also like some heavier springs as the ones i have now are very rolly on track.

I will be putting in a cage, seats, harness etc, but was wondering was there anything else i could do?

Ill also be keeping a blog.

Thanks!
Lenny

 

[fingers99]

I think I'd be looking at 14" 6J or even 6.5J wheels, big disks and calipers, adjustable negative camber on the front end and a rear ARB.

The weight should be easy enough to get rid of (see Brooky's stuff -- mainly on the other place -- for details) lots of nasty, smelly work though. Should be pretty easy to replace the rear glass (side and hatch) with polycarbonate for a few kilos less.

 

[Brooky]

if its a track car, then get a better cam. Custom grind or a C&B292 or 300 and engine management to go with it.

Which cage you getting?

 

[StoneNewt]

Depends how mad you want to go, my Sei with a 1.2 8v, turbo huge brakes, fully wet comes to about 730kg with me in it. There's possibility to get that car lighter by making the inside of the doors look like Swiss cheese etc.

Assuming you're not going for big power, absolute minimum would be AVO coilovers (cheapest adjustable kit on the market), Punto GT brakes all round, 14x6.5J or 14x7J wheels 195/40R14 tyres.

I've had the lower wishbone mounts lowered and moved out by around 30mm a side, requires wing work, then lowering the car around 85mm delivers really nice handling results. Don't attempt this your self and only use a company that has experience with chassis modifications as you'll need an alignment jig to keep everything straight etc.

Oh ARBs, personally I'd put 250 or 275lb springs on all round and file the front ARB in the bin. With the springs at that rate will completely overwhelm the ARB to the point removing it won't actually make any impact on the handling besides removing fouling of the body work causing understeer & chassis damage.

 

[blackledge]

Spend loads of time getting the sound deadening out. Its a proper ****e job to do but you will save kilos. When I built a mazda RX7 GT car I kept it all in a bin bag and put it on a corner weight scale. Can't remember how much I got rid of but it was a biger number than I ever could have emagined.

Matt

 

[Lenny_mc]

it will be trailered to and from the track and I will be doing it as a work in progress, so i guess the first thing to do is to add some lightness.

what cage would you guys recomend?

Cheers guys!

 

[Brooky]

sparco

 

[StoneNewt]

:yeahthat:
I'll second you brooky

 

[jamie86]

Ready to be abused but...

Don't use a Cento i mean come on look how much work you'd need to do to make it handle as well as something that could be had for the same price..

It takes a lot to make a cento into a decent track car

 

[StoneNewt]

yes and no... if you want to be a 'trackday hero' taking out the giants then there are better cars but imo if you're one of them you're an a$$h**l.

if you're looking to develop your driving skills and be able to drive round a chassis' limits then the 'cento is a really nice car to do it it and it'll be fun to.

 

[fingers99]

Ready to be abused but...

Don't use a Cento i mean come on look how much work you'd need to do to make it handle as well as something that could be had for the same price..

It takes a lot to make a cento into a decent track car

Problem is, look at the alternatives:

Pug: spend the next 6 months welding it back together

BMW: interesting if you like going sideways and discovering the difference between handling and grip. Count on some welding and replacing every rubber in the suspension, then the suspension itself.

Porker: brakes and suspension, then there's the wierd harold fuel injection

MR2: Mk1 too slow in NA form, rust and suspension. Mk 2 and Mk 2 turbo probably too expensive.

Alfa: 75 too expensive, 155 a big Cinq........

Looking at the standing quarter and slalom times in the latest PPC challenge (won by a Reliant Kitten!) a lightened Cinq doesn't have too much to fear!

 

[ycming]

EG civic VTI , handle great and won't take much to become a track car, because of all the available parts! and got plenty oh horses under there.

But cinq track car got to be more fun ????

 

[J333EVO]

Problem is, look at the alternatives:

Pug: spend the next 6 months welding it back together, not if you buy a 106 Rallye or GTi, or a Saxo VTS/VTR

BMW: interesting if you like going sideways and discovering the difference between handling and grip. Count on some welding and replacing every rubber in the suspension, then the suspension itself. Sounds pretty much like Cento's now that the tin worm is getting into them.

Porker: brakes and suspension, then there's the wierd harold fuel injection, Porsche brakes are renowned for being the best in the business,. I know I just fitted a set of 911(996)/Boxtser S monoblok Brembo calipers to my 'grale. Though Porsche are in different league cost wise, I'd rather like a 968 Club Sport

MR2: Mk1 too slow in NA form, rust and suspension. Mk 2 and Mk 2 turbo probably too expensive.

Alfa: 75 too expensive, 155 a big Cinq........ TBH you don't see many Alfas at trackdays, though Ron Simmons does some wonderful stuff at Nurburgring with them on the 75Experience.

Looking at the standing quarter and slalom times in the latest PPC challenge (won by a Reliant Kitten!) a lightened Cinq doesn't have too much to fear!That Reliant had some pretty extreme engineering done to it, liked it though when a Proton Persona with nothing more than NOS added to it came so close to the top get you wondering

There are other alternatives of course, but the subject matter is Cinq's

yes and no... if you want to be a 'trackday hero' taking out the giants then there are better cars but imo if you're one of them you're an a$$h**l.

if you're looking to develop your driving skills and be able to drive round a chassis' limits then the 'cento is a really nice car to do it it and it'll be fun to.

That first sentence has got to be one of the stupidest things I have read on here. You take a small car, turn into track day car achieve what, go slower than perceived faster cars so you remain cool, or if you build one to go faster than perceived faster cars your as a$$h**l, read it again makes you sound like a plank.

 

[StoneNewt]

That first sentence has got to be one of the stupidest things I have read on here. You take a small car, turn into track day car achieve what, go slower than perceived faster cars so you remain cool, or if you build one to go faster than perceived faster cars your as a$$h**l, read it again makes you sound like a plank.

*watches the 747 fly over Aarons head*
The fact you mention cool means you've completely missed the point. I'm not talking about the cars I'm talking about the drivers... people that want better cars broadly fall into 2 categories -
* Drivers that have out grown their current track car and want something new to challenge them (if you're looking at a 'cento you're not one of these)
* Drivers who want to be a trackday hero and chase down, hassle etc bigger machinery.
the former are respectful and courteous on track, the latter are real nuisance on track & have spoil sessions/days for people if the marshaling is fairly lax.

 

[fingers99]

On later Porsche's for sure, the brakes are fine. But the talk of weird harold fuel injection should have given the game away -- I was talking of the 924. Glad you gor the brakes on! (Pics?)

For the beemer's, you really, really, cannot compare the rust in the pre E36 cars to that in the Cinqs (and they're getting expensive). For the E36, there's more rust to worry about than a Cinq and rubbers everywhere: complex and fussy cars. I plain don't like the E36, but never driven one with anything bigger than the 2 litre engine.

Saxo or the old Civic would be good, though.

Certainly lots of interesting stuff in this year's challenge! (And isn't Dave the Trike now Proton man?)

As for the Cinq -- it'll be a hoot and there are lots of interesting directions to explore: I'm always amazed at their ability.

 

[Brooky]

handle great and won't take much to become a track car, because of all the available parts!

thats part of the fun with cinqs tho. the popular track day cars, you can buy all the bits and just bolt them on. how boring is that, yes you might get on the track quicker, but making lots of bits gives you a sence of acheivement.

 

[J333EVO]

*watches the 747 fly over Aarons head*
The fact you mention cool means you've completely missed the point. I'm not talking about the cars I'm talking about the drivers... people that want better cars broadly fall into 2 categories -
* Drivers that have out grown their current track car and want something new to challenge them (if you're looking at a 'cento you're not one of these)
* Drivers who want to be a trackday hero and chase down, hassle etc bigger machinery.
the former are respectful and courteous on track, the latter are real nuisance on track & have spoil sessions/days for people if the marshaling is fairly lax.

I don't think you could watch a 747 aircraft fly over my head, as being an Air Traffic Controller I normally watch them on radar and tell the pilots what to do so they can fly over everyone else's head

You came out with an outrageous sweeping statement that you have now had to try and quantify because I pointed it out.

So the two categories are as I read it are;

One = Someone who has built a track but needs a new challenge, why because its too slow, doesn't handle well enough, so they have to be courteous as everyone else passes them, hence the need to move on to the new challenge.

Two, someone who has presumably been a number one at some point and has now built a car suitable of catching and passing bigger machinery rather than getting passed by it, losses all sense and leaves courtesy to the pitlane.

I think you will find that it doesn't matter how quick or slow a car is, the driver will always be the same, courteous or not. You can't just categorise people in two camps, you really are onto a loser there.

Here is an example of someone I know who has a very very fast track day car, who does chase down and pass with ease many faster cars including a Ferrari 360, in his humble Nova, though as can be seen from his onboard camera always shows courtesy when passing cars.

In car footage taken from the Classic & Sports Car action day at Castle Combe last years.

1200 session [ame="http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=7585306438822536466"]Castle Combe Classic Car Action Day 09/06/07[/ame]
1445 session [ame="http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=4286497615384024356"]Castle Combe Classic Car Action Day 09/06/07[/ame]

Some incar fotage from a BMW on same day where you see Dar going past very quickly, almost makes you jump how fast he is.

[ame="http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-4365796575818683730"]ClassicActionDay07_12.wmv[/ame]

Some info on Dar's car as he documents everything that has been done to his car so others can do the same as he has done.

http://www.daxtek.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Dar.html

 

[Brooky]

now that is a machine

 

[StoneNewt]

The broad classification ime works very well as long as you don't become pedantic about 'perfect' track manners.

Track days are about you v's the track v's car, most drivers are sensible and recognise that they will have to drive around other drivers be it overtaking or being overtaken. In any car they're not going to cause real problems unless they get a little to enthusiastic & you may find someone running a pace close enough to you that you can chase at a respectful distance.

Unfortunately there are also drivers are commonly called 'trackday heros' in an ironic tone, another word often used is Chav. These guys often get cars purely to chase down hassle/harry drivers of faster cars & seem to want to tally up overtakes of high performance cars. Also woe betide anyone in a 'lesser car' that overtakes or tries to overtake them.

Here is the definition of hassle as a verb -

hassle | informal | verb [ trans. ]

dict.
harass; irritate; inconvenience; pester : squeegee men who hassle drivers for change at stoplights

thes.
they were hassling him to pay up harass, pester, nag, keep on at, badger, hound, harry, bother, torment, plague; informal bug, give someone a hard time, get on someone's case, breathe down someone's neck.

Now considering that you'll in the briefing you'll be told the days etiquette if there's a faster driver behind you exactly how does a clean overtake from a better driver or a driver in a genuinely faster car lapping quicker than you or in a genuinely faster car end up being hassle?