Technical Check Engine P0615 after gear selector fix

[MrChris6]

Hi all,

Finally got round to changing the gear selector seal on our 500 after originally posting about 1.5 years ago about it!

Anyway, did the job, all went well and put it all back together. Changed the gearbox oil, air filter and engine oil.

Turned car on: battery dead.

Jumper cables from our other car, eventually started up.

Got a "fuel cut off unavailable" message which went away.

Getting a check engine light that won't go away, with code P0615. Not a lot online has helped me out.

I went and checked all connections from the work I carried out: all good. I managed to clear the code but it came back. Went from a drive then came back and cleared the code.

Thinking it could be to do with charge in the battery? I'm guessing it will be coming back on in the morning. Any ideas?

 

[Goudrons]

I don't think the battery was dead, but you have a problem with the starter relay circuit.
This could include the starter relay it's self, ignition switch, solenoid, clutch position sensor or neutral position sensor (if fitted).
the ignition switch, fuses, starter solenoid, starter relay and various safety devices such as clutch position sensors and neutral safety switches.


https://www.obd-codes.com/p0615

 

[MrChris6]

Thanks for your reply. I had seen this online but it's not clear what I might need to do to get to the bottom of things. My main concern is prior to doing these things the car was fine, afterwards it was throwing a code. What could I have done wrong? Could I have knocked something?

 

[Goudrons]

Difficult to know if you did anything wrong if you don't know.

The engines ECU has detected a voltage reading outside it's perimeters on the starter relay circuit, so it's flagged a code and EML.

Before condemning parts I would trace all the wiring and fuses from the battery and make sure they are all clean, including the earths and the battery to starter cable.

A check of the battery's condition, volts, amps?

Next up would be to see if the starter relay is working, does it click when the ignition is switched on? Try cleaning it's terminals, then seeing if the wire from the ignition is energized when turned on.

If it's all clean, powered and energized by the ignition wire, yet the relay isn't operating, you know it's the relay.

 

[MrChris6]

Difficult to know if you did anything wrong if you don't know.

The engines ECU has detected a voltage reading outside it's perimeters on the starter relay circuit, so it's flagged a code and EML.

Before condemning parts I would trace all the wiring and fuses from the battery and make sure they are all clean, including the earths and the battery to starter cable.

A check of the battery's condition, volts, amps?

Next up would be to see if the starter relay is working, does it click when the ignition is switched on? Try cleaning it's terminals, then seeing if the wire from the ignition is energized when turned on.

If it's all clean, powered and energized by the ignition wire, yet the relay isn't operating, you know it's the relay.

Hey, thanks for the response.

So the car started this morning. Threw codes on the way to work. Worked on the way back from work. Stopped at shops, 5 mins in shop, car dead.

Recovery came out and managed to start the car by rocking it back and forth while in second gear then started fine. Recovery thinks starter motor solenoid gone.

The same code is showing in the engine. The car still turns on by itself this evening. I drive to the end of the road and I get "fuel cut off unavailable" message.

I've got a multimeter on order to start testing things with that.

Current thinking: can't see how it is the starter solenoid given that everything was perfectly fine before it was serviced and the gear selector was sorted. I reckon I've disturbed a connection somewhere... has to be. I also put the grounds back where they were supposed to go.

The starter relay must be okay as I believe this is an "all or nothing" item. Is it worth changing out?

Oh and I've also tried the indicator stalk reset thing which does nothing.

I'm pretty stumped right now and the weather will not stop p15hing it down. If it is just connections I guess I need to clean all contact points... hoping the multimeter may help.

 

[varesecrazy]

Did you uncouple starter.. or its cabling when you changed the seal

Lost connection of the big earth cable?

 

[MrChris6]

Did you uncouple starter.. or its cabling when you changed the seal

Lost connection of the big earth cable?

I did note while doing the job that there is an earth cable connected to the top of the selector box. I definitely put it back, job for the morning when I've got light is to take out the gearbox again, take this off and clean up the connection. Fingers crossed that sorts it.

As for uncoupling the starter, no I don't think so! No idea how I would do this. As far as I'm aware, the only electrical things I did were

1) remove battery
2) unclip wire that plugs in to gearbox selector shaft
3) undo the earth cable that's connected to one of the bolts

 

[Goudrons]

A lot of parts are perfectly fine just before they fail, so I wouldn't use that to discount a suspect part.

The rocking back and forth in gear used to be the trick for when the Bendix spring in the starter had failed, but it can work when the solenoid is weak or sticking.
Sometimes a short sharp whack with a mallet works wonders too if it's an auto and you can't rock it.

It could be just a coincidence and that the rocking hasn't done anything helpful, but if it has I suspect the starters solenoid is starting to fail or isn't getting a good circuit to power properly.

It's been a long time since I had starter motor trouble, but I do remember an old Disco playing up in the same way.
It worked at times and not others, I could hear the relay operate but the starter wouldn't engage.

Took if off and it bench tested ok, so I cleaned it up and sprayed it liberally with some duck oil. Once refitted it worked a treat.

 

[John202020]

Replace the earth cable to engine if it's not been changed regardless battery how old? If more than 4 have it checked or replace, modern cars are very battery fickle.

 

[MrChris6]

Went out to the car this morning and still had same problems. It wasn't raining ... finally! So took out the battery and cleaned up all the electrical connections. The earth as mentioned by others was given a really good seeing to at the point it connects to the gearbox selector.

Put it all back together, car starts but engine lights still on.

Get on the phone to local Fiat specialist (turns out there's one 20 mins away). Take it over for them to have a look. Get there, park up and they ask me to drive it in to the garge.

Go back to the car: the light is gone! He scans it and says there's still a code so clears it. Turns it on and off a few times: no code.

Clearly cleaning the connections was the thing that sorted it.

Hopefully the problem won't come back.

Now I've got a "service token expired" message and I totally forgot to ask him to clear it at the same time!

 

[John202020]

Still replace the earth lead, it's possible the cleaned connection provides better charging so no light?

 

[MrChris6]

I may well change it soon, just glad it's working consistently again to be honest!