Grande Punto Car wont start

[Antbooth]

Hi. Im new to fiat forum and in need of some help. I have a fiat grande punto 2008 and I have a dash light symbol with a car and a padlock through it. I have seen other posts on here but I've tried turning the key slowly and also changed the battery in the key but no joy. My brake pedal is stiff and also I've noticed that the coil symbol on my dash has gone of when it use to always flash then stay on. Any help would be much appreciated

 

[g8rpi]

Do you have more than one key? If so try another one. Has anything else happened recently to the car or key?
The barke pedal is stiff because the engine is not running and the bit of vacuum "stored" in the servo chamber has been used.

 

[the green vanper]

Hello,

The symbol means that the immobiliser didn't work. Have you got a spare key?

It's normal that the brake pedal is stiff, it will get softer when the engine will start. The coil symbol is glow plugs heating. I'd say normal when the immo is locked, the electronics knows there's no need to heat the air in the cylinders, as there will be no start attempt.

 

[Antbooth]

Do you have more than one key? If so try another one. Has anything else happened recently to the car or key?
The barke pedal is stiff because the engine is not running and the bit of vacuum "stored" in the servo chamber has been used.

Unfortunately I only have one key. We did try and bump start it going forward but no job then got my neighbour to tow me backwards and still no joy until I came to a stop and turned the key while stationary and it turned over by luck I assume. I drove the car for 15 mins to my Mrs house and the symbol stayed on. Turned the ignition off then back on and it was fine until I tried to start it again. Half an hour later. Does it sound like I need to get the key reprogrammed or even a new key

 

[Antbooth]

Hello,

The symbol means that the immobiliser didn't work. Have you got a spare key?

It's normal that the brake pedal is stiff, it will get softer when the engine will start. The coil symbol is glow plugs heating. I'd say normal when the immo is locked, the electronics knows there's no need to heat the air in the cylinders, as there will be no start attempt.

Unfortunately I only have one key. We did try and bump start it going forward but no job then got my neighbour to tow me backwards and still no joy until I came to a stop and turned the key while stationary and it turned over by luck I assume. I drove the car for 15 mins to my Mrs house and the symbol stayed on. Turned the ignition off then back on and it was fine until I tried to start it again. Half an hour later. Does it sound like I need to get the key reprogrammed or even a new key

 

[g8rpi]

Ideally you need to get proper diagnostics connected to the can to see what is going on. It could be a faulty key, a bad connection aor a fault in one of the electronic control units.
A program called Multiecuscan is one of the best diagnostics. Some members have it and will scan yous car. there is a list here https://www.fiatforum.com/link-forums/multiecuscan-members-register.382/
Note the map only shows members who are listed on the page you are on. There are currently 3 pages.

 

[the green vanper]

Bump starting won't help if the immo is locked.

Before getting some external help, you could disconnect the battery for some time, it should clear some errors. Check in the owner's manual if there ain't any special procedure how to do it. If there's one, follow it!

 

[Antbooth]

Bump starting won't help if the immo is locked.

Before getting some external help, you could disconnect the battery for some time, it should clear some errors. Check in the owner's manual if there ain't any special procedure how to do it. If there's one, follow it!

I've just disconnected the battery. I will leave it overnight and try again in the morning. I will keep you updated. Thanks for your help

 

[Antbooth]

Ideally you need to get proper diagnostics connected to the can to see what is going on. It could be a faulty key, a bad connection aor a fault in one of the electronic control units.
A program called Multiecuscan is one of the best diagnostics. Some members have it and will scan yous car. there is a list here https://www.fiatforum.com/link-forums/multiecuscan-members-register.382/
Note the map only shows members who are listed on the page you are on. There are currently 3 pages.

Thank you for your help. I've just disconnected the battery and will try again in the morning. Hopefully it might clear an error

 

[Antbooth]

Bump starting won't help if the immo is locked.

Before getting some external help, you could disconnect the battery for some time, it should clear some errors. Check in the owner's manual if there ain't any special procedure how to do it. If there's one, follow it!

Reconnected the battery this morning after leaving it over night and no change. Think the next step is to go get my key tested

 

[g8rpi]

Who are you thinking of taking the key too and what are they testing?
There are two parts to he key. The remote control which unlocks the door and a transponder "chip" which operates the immobiliser. Your problem seems to be related to the immobiliser system. You need to make sure they test that part. The test capablility may vary from supplier to supplier
Be wary of anyone trying to sell you a new key without also doing work on the car itself. If they just copy the code in the key the new key will be identical so may have the same error and of course will not help if the fault is in the car.

 

[Antbooth]

Who are you thinking of taking the key too and what are they testing?
There are two parts to he key. The remote control which unlocks the door and a transponder "chip" which operates the immobiliser. Your problem seems to be related to the immobiliser system. You need to make sure they test that part. The test capablility may vary from supplier to supplier
Be wary of anyone trying to sell you a new key without also doing work on the car itself. If they just copy the code in the key the new key will be identical so may have the same error and of course will not help if the fault is in the car.

Thanks for the heads up. Got someone coming round later and I will make sure we go through the steps. Thanks again

 

[Antbooth]

Thanks for the heads up. Got someone coming round later and I will make sure we go through the steps. Thanks again

So the guy came before and tested my key and recoded it but it wasn't the key. He had three different devices hooked up and gave the car a scan. He seemed defeated and said he will come back with yet another piece of equipment and disable my immobiliser. These are the error codes that popped up

 

[the green vanper]

The 'No body computer' on the second photo seems frightening. I'd check the connectors. Which ones?

The same / similar error on the first photo (CAN network) tell us more. Googling for how the system is connected I found an access to the online eLearn for the Stilo in Polish only showing the same connections in the Stilo I tried to change the language in the address bar, but I was receiving an error all the time. Strange it works only for the Polish language

But then got the idea to get back to the home page of aftersales fiat eLearn. I got to the language and model selection

Home Page

aftersales.fiat.com

Strange it doesn't require a login I won't complain

 

[GrandePunto PL]

Looks like no communication to most modules and multiple sensors failure at once (which is a rare case).
One bad module (water damage for example, or bad power, ground/earth typically) can spoil the CAN network.

 

[the green vanper]

Looks like no communication to most modules and multiple sensors failure at once (which is a rare case).
One bad module (water damage for example, or bad power, ground/earth typically) can spoil the CAN network.

Yes, I'd start by checking the NCM - NBC and NCM - NFR modules connections.

As for the abbreviations:

Body Computer Node (NBC)
Engine Control Node (NCM)
Electric Steering Node (NGE)
Dashboard Node (NQS)
Brake System Node (NFR)
Airbag Node (NAB)

But first things first, check the earth cables! Not only visually, but with a multimeter. They messed with the earths in October 2008, so it will be one of the links E1020 in the section below:

Home Page

aftersales.fiat.com

I'd go with C001, C002, C003 and C0015. The location of the cables is in the online eLearn.

 

[GrandePunto PL]

Oscilloscope should be used here to help diagnose this car.
Example (real Diagnostics): https://www.youtube.com/@AutomotiveTestSolutions/search?query=CAN
https://www.youtube.com/@ScannerDanner/search?query=CAN

 

[g8rpi]

Before spending lots of money try jump leads between chassis (body), engine block and battery negative.
One lead from batterry negative terminal to engine block and another from chassis to block.
This bypasses the negative leads. If engine starts withthis set-up get new battery negative and enginge block to chassis cables.

 

[Antbooth]

Hi I will give this a try. Since leaving the car alo e for a day or two this is what's been happening. I also noticed that the sponge seal under the bonnet isn't in the right place which makes me think could this be water getting through to the wiring loom as its underneath where the sponge seal is meant to be. I have sprayed gt85 all over to see if that disperses any moisture

 

[Antbooth]

100% water is getting in. I can see water on the loom. The sponge is meant to stop the water from passing that part and it should be tracking through the vent. Maybe a bead of black silicone will stop the water until I source a new sponge that's hanging off