on my 2009 florino when i am in 5th gear and the revs hit 1500rpm the car will stutter on light throttle but if i let the car go below 1500rpm in 5th its fine until i build back up to 1500rpm. it did this when i first had the van 6 months ago , i thought it to be the EGR valve removed and cleaned it . still no difference , so i blanked it off still the same. i have read afew threads on this simular issue but these all point to the EGR . but mine is not used.:bang:
Technical car stutters at 1500rpm
- Thread starter ray300
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Technical car stutters at 1500rpm
Is'nt 1500rpm a bit low for 5th gear?
LUIGI
LUIGI
it pulls well from 1100rpm but then hits 1500rpm stutter and 1700rpm fine again. i had a golf gt tdi 150 before this and that pulled from 900rpm in 6th . i know this is a totally different . dont you have a tuning box on yours . that that make a diffrence. it just seems strange i have to rev it to just over 2000rpm to get into 5th.
You won't get my fiorino to pull in 5 th at 900 rpm [idle rpm is 900]
I don't get into 5th until well over 2000 rpm, and will get to 115mph at 4500.
Do you know were the rev limit is set on these engines?
LUIGI
Yes 5 speed box
But my engine is the 08 original mk1 multijet 75 no dpf or other euro stuff
With the chip box off it will only get to 98 at a push @ 4000 rpm
The chip box has given me a load more power, but still returns 52 mpg, the worst was 47 when i was given it some, with a vw caddy,........i one!
Although caddys are 2 ltrs they are quite slow,people can't believe mine is only 1248cc.
LUIGI
But my engine is the 08 original mk1 multijet 75 no dpf or other euro stuff
With the chip box off it will only get to 98 at a push @ 4000 rpm
The chip box has given me a load more power, but still returns 52 mpg, the worst was 47 when i was given it some, with a vw caddy,........i one!
Although caddys are 2 ltrs they are quite slow,people can't believe mine is only 1248cc.
LUIGI
Sorry but I dont personally believe that the car wont pull top in 5th at 1500 rpm, mine is exactly the same, and its doing my head in!, I'm on a mission to sort it out, many other people with this engine are having the same problem, like doblos, and vauxhall owners etc.
Mine is fine when its cold, I'd be happy if it was like that all the time, pulls from 1200 upwards, no juddering untill its hot, where theres a nasty judder at 1500rpm. Most driving is done at this speed @40mph so its very annoying, and a pain to drop down to 4th...
So far I've blanked off my egr valve, as its often blamed, this seems to have made a small difference. However it may be that the ecu needs to have the egr system deleted (properly) as well, as this relies on engine temp, as the egr system is activated when the engine is warm, ie when the engine gets warm the ecu adjusts for fuelling, boost etc, as if the egr valve was opening and sending sooty, crappy exhaust gas into the inlet tract, so just blanking the valve doesnt solve the problem.
I'm having an EGR delete done by celtic tuning next monday so will report back if it does the trick, if it doesnt, I'm taking it to a rolling road to have the flatspot looked at and fuelling, boost etc adjusted within the ecu by a remapper. (Like the old days of carbs when a flatspot was adjusted out because of lean or rich mixtures.)
I have software called ECUSCAN which I plugged into the OBD port of the car and took it for a run, when the car was cold , I took readings of engine speed, fuelling, boost, and air quantity. The graph was fairly linear when cold, then I took readings when the car got hot and started to judder, all over the place, screenshots below. I will report back if I get any progress next week.
COLD
HOT
Engine speed reaches @1500rpm, fuelling, boost, air quantity, all drop, car panics, judders, looks like the ecu has incorrect parameters at
that point (I suspect its just an issue of insufficient fuelling at those revs causing everything else to drop) when the engine is warm, maybe has been adjusted by the factory to get great emissions figures on paper, but a dog to drive on the road....
I call that a flatspot...
Mine is fine when its cold, I'd be happy if it was like that all the time, pulls from 1200 upwards, no juddering untill its hot, where theres a nasty judder at 1500rpm. Most driving is done at this speed @40mph so its very annoying, and a pain to drop down to 4th...
So far I've blanked off my egr valve, as its often blamed, this seems to have made a small difference. However it may be that the ecu needs to have the egr system deleted (properly) as well, as this relies on engine temp, as the egr system is activated when the engine is warm, ie when the engine gets warm the ecu adjusts for fuelling, boost etc, as if the egr valve was opening and sending sooty, crappy exhaust gas into the inlet tract, so just blanking the valve doesnt solve the problem.
I'm having an EGR delete done by celtic tuning next monday so will report back if it does the trick, if it doesnt, I'm taking it to a rolling road to have the flatspot looked at and fuelling, boost etc adjusted within the ecu by a remapper. (Like the old days of carbs when a flatspot was adjusted out because of lean or rich mixtures.)
I have software called ECUSCAN which I plugged into the OBD port of the car and took it for a run, when the car was cold , I took readings of engine speed, fuelling, boost, and air quantity. The graph was fairly linear when cold, then I took readings when the car got hot and started to judder, all over the place, screenshots below. I will report back if I get any progress next week.
COLD
HOT
Engine speed reaches @1500rpm, fuelling, boost, air quantity, all drop, car panics, judders, looks like the ecu has incorrect parameters at
that point (I suspect its just an issue of insufficient fuelling at those revs causing everything else to drop) when the engine is warm, maybe has been adjusted by the factory to get great emissions figures on paper, but a dog to drive on the road....
I call that a flatspot...
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Wow................thats impressive, no idea what it means, but sure looks good..............lol
Cheers Qube O.
Cheers Qube O.
Check out this posting...
https://www.fiatforum.com/qubo/300618-springs-dampers-struts-same-punto-also-re-map.html
https://www.fiatforum.com/qubo/300618-springs-dampers-struts-same-punto-also-re-map.html
Hiya, Just been out on a 30/40 mile run in ours, a 2009 1.3 MJD Dualogic, with no DPF, and took special note of pulling.
Will pull happily at 1500 rpm, thats about 50 mph in 6th gear, yes I have a 6 speed gearbox, will still pull happily at 1200 rpm, providing its a level road, with only very very slight inclines. To pick up speed at 1500 rpm speed is picked up in 6th gear with no problem, even going up a incline, (not a mountain pass), at 1200 rpm, its a hard job to get the speed up, and I just nudge the g'box down a gear to 5th, then its away.
As a point of interest, if I let the car even begin to 'labour' in 6th gear, it will not change down by itself, but the whole vehicle starts to 'judder', perhaps like a 'stutter' ??
Have fun, Qube O
12, 13 , 14 and 1600 rpm all ok but its just the 1500 rpm problem .
it will pull from 1200 rpm all the way to 1400 rpm then start to stutter then 1600 rpm ok again . like it was mentioned when i first start the car , for the first 5 to 10 mins , 1500rpm works ok .
it will pull from 1200 rpm all the way to 1400 rpm then start to stutter then 1600 rpm ok again . like it was mentioned when i first start the car , for the first 5 to 10 mins , 1500rpm works ok .
Update...I've blanked off the EGR valve with plates and today had the EGR function disabled in the ECU, but I still have the judder...
I'm convinced its the fuelling at @1500rpm, adjusted by the factory to get great emissions figures at the expense of driveability.
My next step, save some money, in a few months time, I will be taking my car to a rolling road to get the engine mapped for correct operation in this most used of rev range...
Like this link
https://www.fiatforum.com/qubo/300618-springs-dampers-struts-same-punto-also-re-map.html
I had a dualogic petrol panda a while back and loved it, I imagine combining a dualogic with the characteristics of a stuttering diesel at 1500 rpm would be a nightmare. It looks like Fiat have done a good job of mapping the engine and adding another gear to mask the effects.
Manual owners are left to drive around in 4th....
I'm convinced its the fuelling at @1500rpm, adjusted by the factory to get great emissions figures at the expense of driveability.
My next step, save some money, in a few months time, I will be taking my car to a rolling road to get the engine mapped for correct operation in this most used of rev range...
Like this link
https://www.fiatforum.com/qubo/300618-springs-dampers-struts-same-punto-also-re-map.html
I had a dualogic petrol panda a while back and loved it, I imagine combining a dualogic with the characteristics of a stuttering diesel at 1500 rpm would be a nightmare. It looks like Fiat have done a good job of mapping the engine and adding another gear to mask the effects.
Manual owners are left to drive around in 4th....
I tried the driving about @1500 in 5th and had no problems at all,no shudder no nothing.
I still feel getting into 5th at that rpm is no low, allright the van will pull in that gear and rev range but 4th for me is much better and will pull harder as 2000 to 3000 rpm is where the best power is available.
I still can't understand why this is such an issue, just leave it in 4th take it to 2000 rpm into 5th........no shudder........no remap.
LUIGI
I still feel getting into 5th at that rpm is no low, allright the van will pull in that gear and rev range but 4th for me is much better and will pull harder as 2000 to 3000 rpm is where the best power is available.
I still can't understand why this is such an issue, just leave it in 4th take it to 2000 rpm into 5th........no shudder........no remap.
LUIGI
Not quite true, havent you got a tuning box?, that will give you more fuel pressure throughout your rev range, hence more power, probably why you havent got a shudder...
Its all down to personal circumstances, changing to 4th gear in my car is very notchy, and as most of my miles are between 35 to 50mph, chasing sheep, in hilly areas, (sunny wales), this means I am constantly changing 4th-5th-4th...its honestly doing my nut in...My gf says I shouldnt have had a van...
Anyway, like others have experienced, the engine pulls 5th from @1300rpm then meets a hole at 1500rpm then recovers, so the engine SHOULD be able to pull from 1300 all the way up to max, IF it were mapped right, and as I'm a fussy booger, I want my van with windows to perform, as I would love to keep it a long time. nuff said.
Its all down to personal circumstances, changing to 4th gear in my car is very notchy, and as most of my miles are between 35 to 50mph, chasing sheep, in hilly areas, (sunny wales), this means I am constantly changing 4th-5th-4th...its honestly doing my nut in...My gf says I shouldnt have had a van...
Anyway, like others have experienced, the engine pulls 5th from @1300rpm then meets a hole at 1500rpm then recovers, so the engine SHOULD be able to pull from 1300 all the way up to max, IF it were mapped right, and as I'm a fussy booger, I want my van with windows to perform, as I would love to keep it a long time. nuff said.
You have answered your own question then.................buy a tuning box!
Cheaper than a remap
No shudder
Smoother though the range
More power
Great mpg
Nuff said
LUIGI
I've had tuning boxes before on my multiplas, great value for money, and they really work.
However technically, insurance companies need to know, so costs more, and less companies insure them, I'm not really looking for more power just a nice driving machine that I can keep for 100,000 miles, fingers crossed...
Plus because they boost the entire rev range, because the fuel pressure is increased, they put a lot of strain low down, and can wear out clutches prematurely, I had to change a few clutches on my multiplas, and thats not a nice job..
Some remapping companies ease the maps low down to preserve gearbox /clutch life and ramp it all up later in the rev range, costs more to do, but better IMO.
However technically, insurance companies need to know, so costs more, and less companies insure them, I'm not really looking for more power just a nice driving machine that I can keep for 100,000 miles, fingers crossed...
Plus because they boost the entire rev range, because the fuel pressure is increased, they put a lot of strain low down, and can wear out clutches prematurely, I had to change a few clutches on my multiplas, and thats not a nice job..
Some remapping companies ease the maps low down to preserve gearbox /clutch life and ramp it all up later in the rev range, costs more to do, but better IMO.
Just a point here.................the 'swines', sorry, HMG, have introduced new rules as per EGR valves. Your car/vans reg will be run through the M.O.T. database to see if it should have a EGR valve fitted, if it should, and you have removed it, its a automatic M.O.T. failure................be aware.
Cheers Qube O.
Same problems with our, 2009 qubo with 50000 miles on clock, hit 1500 rpm car stutters, does not do it from cold engine.
Thinking of getting remap done.
Thinking of getting remap done.
