Technical Car has issues going into gear until revs are pretty low

[Mousendahouse]

2007 1.2 8v manual panda.
Hello Fiat Forum!. I'm abit worried about some behaviour in my car. Whenever i try downshift, my car needs to go to quite low revs before i can shift. By that i mean. I'm feeling alot of resistance trying to push the lever into the right gear. I haven't tried to use big amounts of force and forcing it in gear yet. Sometimes the gear changes are abit clunky when upshifting aswell. I had a gear oil change 2 months ago, it didn't change anything. Sometimes i also have some difficulties getting it into reverse, but this is normally helped by shifting it into 2nd gear beforehand. Whenever the engine is off the gear changes seems smoother (i don't need to depress the clutch to shift gears when engine is off, is this intended?)

Hope anyone can help me clarify what's going on.
Thanks everyone

 

[chris3234]

What millage is the car on?
As your description points to an issue with the clutch or clutch cable

 

[Mousendahouse]

Thanks for ur reply chris.
It is currrently on 85000 miles

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

What you are describing is a pretty "text book" description of clutch drag. Because our right hand drive cars have rather suspect clutch hydraulics, the first thing to try is a jolly good bleed out of the clutch hydraulics. If that improves it then you have confirmation that it's a hydraulics problem. Unfortunately that's unlikely to be a permanent cure, although the good effects may last for quite a while, it's very likely that it'll only be "cured" by renewing at least the slave cylinder and quite probably the master cylinder too. You can buy the whole setup prefilled and bled with fluid so all you have to do is fit it and snap the pipe connector together.

Here's Shop4parts listing: https://www.shop4parts.co.uk/?name=..._Panda_II_(04_to_09)_1.2_8v_Clutch_Hydraulics You can find cheaper options on the likes of ebay etc but I've never had any problems with stuff supplied by S4p so they tend to be my default supplier.

If you're uncertain about diagnosing this problem, as quite a bit of money is involved, it might be wise to seek a "professional" diagnosis before ordering parts?

 

[Mousendahouse]

What you are describing is a pretty "text book" description of clutch drag. Because our right hand drive cars have rather suspect clutch hydraulics, the first thing to try is a jolly good bleed out of the clutch hydraulics. If that improves it then you have confirmation that it's a hydraulics problem. Unfortunately that's unlikely to be a permanent cure, although the good effects may last for quite a while, it's very likely that it'll only be "cured" by renewing at least the slave cylinder and quite probably the master cylinder too. You can buy the whole setup prefilled and bled with fluid so all you have to do is fit it and snap the pipe connector together.

Here's Shop4parts listing: https://www.shop4parts.co.uk/?name=..._Panda_II_(04_to_09)_1.2_8v_Clutch_Hydraulics You can find cheaper options on the likes of ebay etc but I've never had any problems with stuff supplied by S4p so they tend to be my default supplier.

If you're uncertain about diagnosing this problem, as quite a bit of money is involved, it might be wise to seek a "professional" diagnosis before ordering parts?

Firstly thanks for ur reply. My car is a left hand drive. I live in Denmark. Does the rest still apply to my case then? I believe my car has a clutch cable

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Oh dear, I've just noticed chris's post. Of course you're left hand drive aren't you? so you'll have a cable! Doh! Might be "cured" by simply adjusting the cable? Sorry for not noticing you are not a right hand drive.

 

[Mousendahouse]

I just read on clutch drag online and found this test. I just tried it out in my driveway
{
Set the transmission to neutral.
Start the engine.
Fully depress the clutch pedal.
Shift the transmission into first gear and keep the clutch pedal fully depressed.
Shift the transmission into neutral.
Wait 5 seconds to allow the transmission to come to a complete stop.
Without forcing the shift lever, shift into reverse.

If you can hear the gear clash, the clutch is dragging.
}


I do hear gear clash

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Firstly thanks for ur reply. My car is a left hand drive. I live in Denmark. Does the rest still apply to my case then? I believe my car has a clutch cable

Yes I still think your problem is very likely to be clutch "drag" - so not freeing properly when the pedal is depressed. Most likely due to adjustment of the cable being needed - maybe even a new cable needed? More drastic problems could be wear in the pedal pivots or maybe something more drastic. For instance our old Mk1 1992 Panda Parade which had a cable clutch and the outer cable sheath slowly punched it's way through the retainer on the bulkhead. I was able to temporarily compensate by adjusting the cable but then, after a few weeks, it would be out of adjustment again. In the end I took it to pieces and found the cable retaining bracket was cracked and slowly bending over into the passenger compartment. I hammered it back into place and welded up the cracks and it then behaved itself for the rest of it's time with us (we had that car for about 19 years!)

 

[Mousendahouse]

Oh dear, I've just noticed chris's post. Of course you're left hand drive aren't you? so you'll have a cable! Doh! Might be "cured" by simply adjusting the cable? Sorry for not noticing you are not a right hand drive.

I'm by no means a mechanic. Would that be something that is possible to do myself with common tools or am i bound to find a mechanic?

 

[Mousendahouse]

Yes I still think your problem is very likely to be clutch "drag" - so not freeing properly when the pedal is depressed. Most likely due to adjustment of the cable being needed - maybe even a new cable needed? More drastic problems could be wear in the pedal pivots or maybe something more drastic. For instance our old Mk1 1992 Panda Parade which had a cable clutch and the outer cable sheath slowly punched it's way through the retainer on the bulkhead. I was able to temporarily compensate by adjusting the cable but then, after a few weeks, it would be out of adjustment again. In the end I took it to pieces and found the cable retaining bracket was cracked and slowly bending over into the passenger compartment. I hammered it back into place and welded up the cracks and it then behaved itself for the rest of it's time with us (we had that car for about 19 years!)

Sorry for the amount of messages.

I just stumbled upon this website
http://4cardata.info/elearn/169/2/2009000/2000901/2001394/2752652
Is this what i'm looking into doing?
I highly appreciate ur advice

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I just read on clutch drag online and found this test. I just tried it out in my driveway
{
Set the transmission to neutral.
Start the engine.
Fully depress the clutch pedal.
Shift the transmission into first gear and keep the clutch pedal fully depressed.
Shift the transmission into neutral.
Wait 5 seconds to allow the transmission to come to a complete stop.
Without forcing the shift lever, shift into reverse.

If you can hear the gear clash, the clutch is dragging.
}


I do hear gear clash

Quite a good way to test it.

Depressing the clutch and shifting into first will use the synchro cones on first gear to slow down and stop the gears in the box rotating.

Selecting neutral will free up the gears to rotate again if the clutch is dragging. If the clutch is not dragging the gears should remain stationary or only rotate very slowly due to oil drag as long as you keep the clutch depressed.

Reverse gear has no synchro provision so the gears will "crash" if the clutch is dragging but should engage relatively smoothly if the clutch is free with the pedal depressed.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Sorry for the amount of messages.

I just stumbled upon this website
http://4cardata.info/elearn/169/2/2009000/2000901/2001394/2752652
Is this what i'm looking into doing?
I highly appreciate ur advice

Mousendahouse, please ask as many questions as you like, we probably don't have all the answers but we'll help if we can and get a lot of enjoyment out of doing it.

Yes that adjustment procedure looks sensible and, as you can see, it's pretty easy to do. Don't be too obsessed with getting exactly the measurement shown down to the last half millimeter, probably setting the pedal so it's roughly level with the brake pedal will be absolutely fine.

Good luck and do let us know how you get on?

 

[Mousendahouse]

Mousendahouse, please ask as many questions as you like, we probably don't have all the answers but we'll help if we can and get a lot of enjoyment out of doing it.

Yes that adjustment procedure looks sensible and, as you can see, it's pretty easy to do. Don't be too obsessed with getting exactly the measurement shown down to the last half millimeter, probably setting the pedal so it's roughly level with the brake pedal will be absolutely fine.

Good luck and do let us know how you get on?

I will try to do it today. Again thanks alot
I will be sure to let u know how it goes!
Have a great day

 

[koalar]

Sorry for the amount of messages.

I just stumbled upon this website
http://4cardata.info/elearn/169/2/2009000/2000901/2001394/2752652
Is this what i'm looking into doing?
I highly appreciate ur advice

yes

 

[Mousendahouse]

I've just been out and looked at it. I'm abit unsure where the adjustment nut is. Is it at the end of the one of the two clutch cables connected to the gearbox out in the engine bay? or is it supposed to be at the "top" of the the clutch pedal? I can see that my clutch peddle is abit lower than my brake pedal.

 

[A3jeroen]

Cable ends in front of/under the battery. That is where the adjustment nut is. Adjust in small steps and remember how many turns you adjusted.
Probably cable stretched a little bit and shortening it may cure it.

gr J

 

[koalar]

post above is correct

if you are still struggling

get someone to push the clutch down while looking to the right of the engine

 

[Mousendahouse]

post above is correct

if you are still struggling

get someone to push the clutch down while looking to the right of the engine

Hey Koalar. I have a question, maybe u can help me out.
On this site http://4cardata.info/elearn/169/2/2009000/2000901/2001394/2752652
Im abit unsure. It says that the pedal travel should be 115 mm. But then it later says the 1b measurement in the drawing should be 140 mm. Maybe i'm just misunderstanding but aren't they refering to the same measurement? Perhaps u can help to clarify for me. Thanks alot

 

[koalar]

you press the pedal until you feel some resistance then measure the height

I dont bother too much. as long as the bite point is about half way


if I was you I would turn the nut clockwise two turns and see if thing improve


by the way make sure the carpet isnt stuck under the pedal