Technical Camber issues

[RobW]

a proper performance tyre yard will have the laser 4 wheel alignment ramp to measure and adjust all this, e.g. Protyre

a full 'geo' is indeed hours of work but a 4 wheel alignment check only takes half an hour and is usuallyfree if no adjustment needed

The two bolts were taken out to remove the suspension strut it wasn't marked and the camber on that side (possibly both) is goosed,
Even being "fixed bolts" on "fixed holes" once loosened you will be alarmed at the amount you can add/subtract on camber,
Most tracking centers ain't equipped to adjust camber.
Find a good body shop and ask them how much, it has to go on almost a jig table and took me and my friend almost 2hours of inputting numbers into the computer, and a lot full lock,set straight,then steering wheel straight, etc to get it perfect.
Either way unless they do fixed price work your looking at 2/3hours labor
Mine cost £45 because i know him.

Looked similar to this.

 

[RUI]

i thought that you could not adjust the rear on the 500

 

[306maxi]

i thought that you could not adjust the rear on the 500

You can't.

So, anyone able to shed some light on which way the top mounts fit?

 

[alexGS]

As d4nny8oy said, it's the toe-out (as shown in the alignment diagram) that causes the inner edge wear, rather than camber. Several of my 164s have had around 2 degrees negative camber on the front wheels, and tyre wear has been even enough.

Power-assisted steering generally has more caster (top mount further back) than manual steering. Caster gives stability (i.e. that strange stiff and heavy feeling) when the assistance stops at higher speeds. The heaviness is of course masked at lower speeds by the assistance.

In the first photo, the tyre looked pretty well-worn all over to me, looks under 2mm of tread on the outside, new tyres are 7mm.

I think the moral of the thread is to check the alignment regularly. I have my cars done once a year, more often in the case of the 156 (four times last year and two the year before) as I had to replace rack ends, upper arms twice, lower arms, springs and shocks, and anti-roll bushes twice. For all that the alignment was never right as there was a 150% variation in caster - half a degree one side, one and a half degrees the other side - and the spec was 3.5 degrees I tried changing all arms, mountings, and bushes, even tried moving the subframe and modifying the upper arm mounting which helped a bit (0.5 up to 1 degree). In the end, I and three others decided it was the body that was wrong. Predictably the steering was rather lively and always tugged left, but at least the camber was a correct -1 degree each side. I'm actually a bit fed up with 156/147 suspension now, and my 166 has similar huge discrepancies.

The 500 looks so simple, but meanwhile I can't take a photo of mine because I'm in Sydney, sorry. Melbourne next week

-Alex

 

[306maxi]

Still haven't had the geometry checked by I'm only driving short distances in the 500 so not too bothered

2 part worn Potenza's with just under 7mm showed up today. Will get them fitted on Saturday. Cost me just a smidge more than one single tyre would have cost me and I normally wouldn't buy part worns but I just didn't see the point in fitting two 2 new tyres with two tyres which have 4-5mm of tread on them.

Will do the usual thing and not heed my own advice and put the new tyres on the front which will wear them down quicker rather than putting them on the back. This should mean that they all need replacing at the same time rather than just in pairs.

 

[ahmett]

Still haven't had the geometry checked by I'm only driving short distances in the 500 so not too bothered

2 part worn Potenza's with just under 7mm showed up today. Will get them fitted on Saturday. Cost me just a smidge more than one single tyre would have cost me and I normally wouldn't buy part worns but I just didn't see the point in fitting two 2 new tyres with two tyres which have 4-5mm of tread on them.

Will do the usual thing and not heed my own advice and put the new tyres on the front which will wear them down quicker rather than putting them on the back. This should mean that they all need replacing at the same time rather than just in pairs.

Be careful watch out for a lively rear end in wet conditions due to more wear on the rear especially since you dont have ESP.

 

[306maxi]

Be careful watch out for a lively rear end in wet conditions due to more wear on the rear especially since you dont have ESP.

Yup. The difference isn't massive though. The worst tyre has about 4.5mm of tread and the best has just under 7mm. I once had brand new tyres on the front of my 406 (so 8mm of tread) and tyres which were only just above the wear markers. That was a lively car.....

That's kind of why I was all 4 tyres to be ready for replacement at the same time, don't want something that's especially oversteery or understeery.

 

[ahmett]

Yup. The difference isn't massive though. The worst tyre has about 4.5mm of tread and the best has just under 7mm. I once had brand new tyres on the front of my 406 (so 8mm of tread) and tyres which were only just above the wear markers. That was a lively car.....

That's kind of why I was all 4 tyres to be ready for replacement at the same time, don't want something that's especially oversteery or understeery.

That's fair enough. They are all a bit worn so shouldnt be a problem. The first time i rotated my tires after i waited 12k (much too long to rotate) i was in for a big surprise when i took a slippery corner!

 

[306maxi]

That's fair enough. They are all a bit worn so shouldnt be a problem. The first time i rotated my tires after i waited 12k (much too long to rotate) i was in for a big surprise when i took a slippery corner!

It all depends on tyre wear I guess. I rotated mine once a year after the winter tyres went on and they were never really more than a millimetre different and I always put the most worn tyre on the rear drivers side, the 2nd most worn on the other rear, the 2nd best tyre on the front drivers side and the best tyre on the remaining corner. Tended to keep the tyres fairly balanced

 

[306maxi]

3 degrees toe out on the drivers side wheel, 1.5 on the passenger side wheel. Wonder if that could have caused it?

 

[ahmett]

3 degrees toe out on the drivers side wheel, 1.5 on the passenger side wheel. Wonder if that could have caused it?

Wow so your mot saved you basically!

This reminded me of the Spa Grand Prix last year when Red Bull went over Pirelli's recommended camber limit of max 3 (i think they went 3.5) and after qualifying they were very worried about the state of their tires (you have to start race on tires you qualified with) and pirelli was disappointed that Red Bull would risk tire's integrity that much. In the end Red Bull went to the pits the lap or 2 after the race started and got rid of those awful tires!

 

[alexGS]

3 degrees toe out on the drivers side wheel, 1.5 on the passenger side wheel. Wonder if that could have caused it?

Thanks for confirming I was right
Camber rarely causes wear, toe always does.

Glad you're running right now, maybe the front end is less wayward under braking too (braking causes slight toe-out as well).

-Alex

 

[306maxi]

Thanks for confirming I was right
Camber rarely causes wear, toe always does.

Glad you're running right now, maybe the front end is less wayward under braking too (braking causes slight toe-out as well).

-Alex

Yeah much more stable now