Cam failure update from last week....

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Cam failure update from last week....

M

Martin

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Well I posted last week that my HGT's water pump had lunched itself causing cambelt slippage and thus valve damage well here is the update.....

There is a small beaing carrier with a pulley on it at the bottom of the block, a belt runs round this that runs the power steering and / or aircon (can't quite remember) , well it was this bearing that failed. This pulley / bearing / belt is outside the cambelt housing, but..... the bearing failed, causing the auxilliary belt to fray, the frayed parts of this belt managed to work their way inside the cambelt housing, wrapped themselves around the waterpump pulley, caused the water pump pulley to jam and then fall off, making the cambelt jump. The cambelt jumping caused the toothed pulley running the cams to jam, snapping the pin that holds it in place.
Result, every single valve is bent and jammed in the open position :(
My missus was driving it at the time and she said she was doing 85, so all that damage to the head would have occured in about 10 seconds if not less I am guessing.

I asked the mechanic if the cambelt or tensioner could have added to this failure and he said they were fine (changed 28,000 miles ago), but I have asked for them and the waterpump to be changed anyways.

The nightmare about this is the failure happened on Wednesday and it was actually booked in for a service on the Thursday :( My missus decided to visit her mum and dads on the Wednesday, that extra mileage was the killer, if she hadn't gone the car would have made it to the service :(

Hey ho. I have got another head coming from a breakers, they are pressure testing it and doing a light skim.

Also required (which I knew about) full set of discs and pads and a new radiator. This is gonna be expensive.

Now before some of the Fiat knockers start about unreliable Fiats (you know who you are Roger), this is partly my fault as the car hasn't been serviced for 18 months.

Also this is the first failure the car has suffered in 6.5 years and 98,000 miles.

I have only paid out for brake pads, 2 exhaust back boxes, one manifold and one battery in the life of the car, so not too shabby.
 
>this is partly my fault as the car hasn't been serviced for 18 months.

DOH!
 
DOH! indeed Tom.

I think the correct phrase is...

call me ****** ;)

I have done things like oil and filter changes and brake pads in that time, so she hasn't been totally neglected.
 
Martin this sounds hauntingly familiar to my car, anychance of updates as you sort this, as i'm still waiting for my garage to diagnose mine

I want to die peacefully in my sleep like grandpa, not screaming like the passengers in his car!
 
It's all being fixed.

I have sourced a head from a breakers, hopefully should be with my mechanic today or tomorrow. (Been pressure tested and lightly skimmed, 6 months warranty £225)
New cambelt and tensioner is being fitted.
New head gasket, valve seals, head bolts are also on order, again should be with my mechanic today / tomorrow.
New waterpump being fitted too, may as well change this as it's in the open and the car has done 98K.
New brake discs and pads all round.
New radiator as well.

Most of the parts I have sourced off the web and are brand new. http://www.sapmotorparts.com/ are very good on price. Especially for standard fit Discs, trouble is they are out of stock of fronts, which is a shame as they only want £15 per disc and the next wes price I have found is £30 per :(
Good price on the waterpump and gasket set though.
Radiator I have found from a rad specialist in Crystal Palace for £125 brand new.

Should have her back on the road by the end of next week. Approx price is £1500 all in :( She's only worth about £2000, but I am loath to let her go) And to be honest what better car could I buy for £2000 ?

All I need apparently is a standard HGT Mk1 wheel for the MOT, this hopefully I won't need, but just in case!
 
where are you at? i got 4 mk1 hgt wheels sitting in the garage.
 
Re.Cambelts etc & changing

Some advice please if you've got a mo guys

My HGT has 42K on it, but its a 99 on a T, so..

Picadilly Fiat (Ripon) quoted £705 to change cambelt & tensioners (Ouch!).

Woodcocks in Hull quoted 688 (but said this included Water pump too).

What you reckon?
Duno if Picadilly included water pump (duno whether this really needs to be changed too?)

As always, your advice greatly appreciated
 
Re: Re.Cambelts etc & changing

The normal official Fiat price for a 72K service which included the cambelt is approx £1100.

So anything under that is a good price.

I paid £600 for a 72,000 service including the cambelt and tensioner change.

I guess £705 from a Fiat dealers for just the cambelt and tensioner is not bad (relatively speaking, this is a Fiat dealership after all)

The other quote you had isn't too bad if it's a Fiat dealership and if it does include the price of the waterpump. I think the price of a waterpump from Fiats is around £70 inc VAT. From memory the cambelt and tensioner is £250 (that price came from this forum not from Fiat's though so I don't know how accurate this is) So thats £320 in parts and £360 in labour.
Officially the engine has to come right out to change the cambelt.
Unofficially the engine can be rocked over to one side to gain access.

The guy rebuilding my engine has the cambelt and head off without removing the engine so it can be done.
 
Re: Re.Cambelts etc & changing

Where abouts are you from Nikshaw??
 
Re: Re.Cambelts etc & changing

Oh, as for changing the waterpump, I would say go for it, if it fails they have to go through the same procedure as for changing the cambelt, so while they have the cover off you may as well pay that little bit extra, rather than a huge amount if it fails.
 
Whereabouts!?

Hi Wiggy

I'm over yonder Dale, in York, So only Fiat places I know of are Picadilly@Ripon, and Woodcocks Fiat(Independant)@Hull.
 
Re: Whereabouts!?

Nik,
On the road between hull and York there is a fiat place, only small though. Dont know what it is called either :)
 
Re: Re.Cambelts etc & changing

Update from my mechanic, the replacement head has turned up today and will be fitted as soon as he has time. The engine is still in situ in the engine bay and he is fairly confident he can get her all back together without taking the engine out.
He has got a new cam tensioner, a new auxilliary belt tensioner and new cambelt for £150+vat.
I picked up the new rad yesterday, it's a quarter of the weight of the original, the core is all aluminium. I picked it up and couldn't believe how light it was.
All the new discs and pads are on.
Hopefully I'll have her back by the middle of next week.
 
Re: Re.Cambelts etc & changing

Monday update...

Mechanic had time to take the head out of the packaging on Saturday, it was missing the cam wheels, so I rung the breakers and they were surprised ! They said to ring back today.
So, apparently the engine reconditioning company they sent it to didn't put it back together fully after skimming the head, they rummaged around and finally found the cam wheels and my mech should have them tomorrow.

My mech said that he can get most of the engine back together today, then he is busy on other work tomorrow, but hopefully she should be all finished thursday or friday depending on his other workload.

I asked him how much for a cambelt change on a HGT (or Marea or Coupe) and he reckons on about £500, this is for the cambelt, tensioner, idler AND waterpump, parts and labour.
He also said that it is very difficult to give a definitive price as these jobs never go the same. He reckons that on the 8 20valve engined cars he has done, 2 have had to have the engine out as he found other problems associated that could not be rectified with the engine in situ.
So if you have a reasonable well maintained car with no other associated problems then £500 is the price.
Not too bad if you ask me.

The only trouble is he is in deepest darkest Kent (Sandwich)
 
Radiator

Hi Martin,
can you let me know the name of the rad specialist in Crystal Palace please? My cooling system is full of crap so that may be a good option...
Was it £125 for the air con one or the normal one?
 
Re: Radiator

http://www.aaronradiator.co.uk/

£125 for the Air con version (thats without the dreaded VAT though :( £146.88 with VAT)
They are just down the road from Selhurst Park stadium. Ring them up today and they'll have it tomorrow.
 
Re: Radiator

Ok thanks. (still £30 cheaper than SAP!)
Is it a special lightweight one or is it that your old one was so full of crud it weighed more?!?
 
Re: Radiator

The new one has an aluminium core, the old one is all copper I think.
 
Wednesday update...

Camwheels cam late yesterday, mechanic has said that all being well she should be running tomorrow, all serviced, MOT'd and back with me Friday :)
 

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