Hi there, I av a 12 reg 75 bhp Qubo d/logic n in recent wks I've come across a solid foot brake wen starting !. Once started the pedal is fine & wrks as norm!. It happ about 6 times nw in last 4wks or so , should I b concerned about this & is there any1 out there had the same issue if it is an issue @ all . Thnx Mick
General brake pedal
- Thread starter scorps02
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General brake pedal
It can happy on any servo assisted car when the engine is off, and is perfectly normal. My Bravo Dualogic does it btw
Morning All, Never had that happen on mine.............so happily take what Most Easterly Pandas says as correct.
Though think I'd still mention it to my dealer next time I was there..
Take care, Qube O.
Though think I'd still mention it to my dealer next time I was there..
Take care, Qube O.
raton_laveur
Established member
Sadly that's normal. What happens is that the power has been removed from your power brakes. I don't have Dual Logic but I have the same problem in reverse, so to speak.
I see a red light ahead in town and take the car out of gear so as to coast to a stop. The Start & Stop kicks in and cuts the engine since it is at idle but the car is still moving. Suddenly I no longer have power steering and brakes! Yes, I still have steering and brakes but both take a lot more effort.
I think someone needs to go back to the drawing board with the S&S. In addition to this, mine is very erratic and totally unpredictable in operation.
I see a red light ahead in town and take the car out of gear so as to coast to a stop. The Start & Stop kicks in and cuts the engine since it is at idle but the car is still moving. Suddenly I no longer have power steering and brakes! Yes, I still have steering and brakes but both take a lot more effort.
I think someone needs to go back to the drawing board with the S&S. In addition to this, mine is very erratic and totally unpredictable in operation.
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I don't think SS should be doing that, it should know that the car is in motion, although equally you are not driving properly, and shouldn't be coasting out of gear. You'll be using more fuel doing that also, you should leave the car in gear until you have stopped!
raton_laveur
Established member
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How am I using more fuel when the engine is at idle and doesn't have to contend with the weight of the car and air plus rolling resistance?
On my old commute I could coast for close to a mile in a couple of places and more than half a mile in several others. I'd expect that running at idle would use less fuel that running along at +/- 2500 RPM. I never had the S&S problem at road speeds, only in town. On the other hand, my S&S works only when it wants to. Sometimes it works correctly, cutting the engine when I stop. Other times it lets the engine idle until about two seconds before the light turns green or else doesn't work at all but works fine the next time.
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OTE=raton_laveur;3121280].
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How am I using more fuel when the engine is at idle and doesn't have to contend with the weight of the car and air plus rolling resistance?
On my old commute I could coast for close to a mile in a couple of places and more than half a mile in several others. I'd expect that running at idle would use less fuel that running along at +/- 2500 RPM. I never had the S&S problem at road speeds, only in town. On the other hand, my S&S works only when it wants to. Sometimes it works correctly, cutting the engine when I stop. Other times it lets the engine idle until about two seconds before the light turns green or else doesn't work at all but works fine the next time
Morning, Fuel use is not really that important here........what could be is, technically if you are allowing the car to 'coast' in a out of gear mode....you are legally Not In Control of the car.......that could present problems, and all for a thimbles worth of fuel !!!!!
Take care, Qube O.
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How am I using more fuel when the engine is at idle and doesn't have to contend with the weight of the car and air plus rolling resistance?
On my old commute I could coast for close to a mile in a couple of places and more than half a mile in several others. I'd expect that running at idle would use less fuel that running along at +/- 2500 RPM. I never had the S&S problem at road speeds, only in town. On the other hand, my S&S works only when it wants to. Sometimes it works correctly, cutting the engine when I stop. Other times it lets the engine idle until about two seconds before the light turns green or else doesn't work at all but works fine the next time
Morning, Fuel use is not really that important here........what could be is, technically if you are allowing the car to 'coast' in a out of gear mode....you are legally Not In Control of the car.......that could present problems, and all for a thimbles worth of fuel !!!!!
Take care, Qube O.
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Because to idle the engine has to use fuel, when in gear as soon as you take your foot off the the accelerator (gas) fuel shut off comes into play and the car uses no fuel
Some call it magic, others call it a modern fuel injection system
raton_laveur
Established member
.Because to idle the engine has to use fuel, when in gear as soon as you take your foot off the the accelerator (gas) fuel shut off comes into play and the car uses no fuel
Some call it magic, others call it a modern fuel injection system
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And I call it nonsense. If you shut off the fuel, the engine stops.
You really have no clue! Its a well known fact with a modern fuel injection engine, if the car is in gear, and fuel shut off kicks in, the car isn't going to stop dead is it? The momentum of the car will keep the engine turning over.
Now Now Children.......can we play nicely PLEASE.............
Qube O.
Qube O.
Listen up ........most easterly pandas is correct,coasting out of gear is not normal driving, the car should always be in gear as this helps with braking.
A friend of mine is a driving instructor, and he said ''well if thats what this guys doing he a t**t....you use your gear box to slow to a stop....not just the brakes [engine brake] and start stop would be effected and if the engine were to stop when in motion you will lose steering control and braking effort.....do not cost out of gear.......end of. Luigi.
A friend of mine is a driving instructor, and he said ''well if thats what this guys doing he a t**t....you use your gear box to slow to a stop....not just the brakes [engine brake] and start stop would be effected and if the engine were to stop when in motion you will lose steering control and braking effort.....do not cost out of gear.......end of. Luigi.
raton_laveur
Established member
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Then why do they tell you not to push or pull start the car? We are talking about a diesel here. You'll foul the DPF and maybe the converter as well by doing this. And how does the engine restart after it has shut itself off? Remember, this has nothing to do with the Start & Stop.
Let me put this another way. Get on a straight stretch of motorway, preferably at night when there's little or no traffic. Get up to the speed limit and turn off the ignition and leave the car in gear and the lights on. If you turned the key too far, bring it back to the 'run' position so the steering wheel is not locked but do not restart the engine. After you've done this, come back here and tell us how it went. What I'm getting at here is that your car will be driving the engine as it won't be getting any fuel, which is exactly the same as what I've just been told by two of you. Momentum will NOT keep the car going very far because of the engine's compression, belt and accessory drag, rolling resistance and air resistance, right? What you are saying about shutting off the fuel doesn't make any sense. If you shut off the fuel while driving and the engine decelerates and then stops, what happens to your power steering and brakes not to mention your alternator and AC?
After you've come to a stop (please pull off into the emergency lane as you start to slow down and note the distance that your car coasted following the above directions), restart the engine and do the same thing over again. This time put the gearbox in Neutral but leave the engine running. Again, note the distance the car covered while coasting and report back here.
Also, if there's an automatic fuel shutoff when there's no load on the engine, the engine would stop as soon as you put the car in Neutral, even at 70 MPH, right? Did it? Again, this has nothing to do with the Stop & Start. My Stop & Start will kick in and stop the engine sometimes while coasting but that's only at very low speeds, the same as a walk.
If I can use the car's stored energy to move it for 10 of the 96 miles of my round trip commute at idle, I have in fact made a fuel saving compared to having the engine under power and using rather more fuel to cover the same distance than I would have used otherwise. I let the car coast down on approaches to roundabouts and motorway exits. Using the gearbox to slow down increases engine speed and of course fuel consumption as well.
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What has push or pull starting a car got to do with leaving the car in gear when slowing down (and allowing fuel shut off to kick in) rather than knocking it into neutral and letting it use fuel idling
FYI
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy-efficient_driving#Coasting_or_gliding
1) Coasting - UK Highway code - 122 states
Coasting. This term describes a vehicle travelling in neutral or with the clutch pressed down. It can reduce driver control because
1 engine braking is eliminated
2 vehicle speed downhill will increase quickly
3 increased use of the footbrake can reduce its effectiveness
4 steering response will be affected, particularly on bends and corners
5 it may be more difficult to select the appropriate gear when needed.
I guess someone should let them know they're wrong.
2) Fuel Saving the AA say...
Although it used to be quite a common practice to save fuel, rolling downhill or approaching a junction with the car out of gear is inadvisable because the driver doesn't have full control of the vehicle...
With changes in vehicle fuel systems coasting won't save you fuel these days either.
Old car with a carburettor – take your foot off the accelerator pedal with the car in gear and fuel is still drawn through into the engine. Fuel savings could be made by coasting out of gear.
Modern car with electronic engine management – take your foot off the accelerator and the ECU cuts the fuel supply to the injectors anyway so there's nothing to be gained by coasting.
Blimey AA are wrong too...
Coasting. This term describes a vehicle travelling in neutral or with the clutch pressed down. It can reduce driver control because
1 engine braking is eliminated
2 vehicle speed downhill will increase quickly
3 increased use of the footbrake can reduce its effectiveness
4 steering response will be affected, particularly on bends and corners
5 it may be more difficult to select the appropriate gear when needed.
I guess someone should let them know they're wrong.
2) Fuel Saving the AA say...
Although it used to be quite a common practice to save fuel, rolling downhill or approaching a junction with the car out of gear is inadvisable because the driver doesn't have full control of the vehicle...
With changes in vehicle fuel systems coasting won't save you fuel these days either.
Old car with a carburettor – take your foot off the accelerator pedal with the car in gear and fuel is still drawn through into the engine. Fuel savings could be made by coasting out of gear.
Modern car with electronic engine management – take your foot off the accelerator and the ECU cuts the fuel supply to the injectors anyway so there's nothing to be gained by coasting.
Blimey AA are wrong too...
MY GOD.......... I GIVE UP! :bang:
COAST ALL YOU LIKE, DO ALL THE TESTS YOU LIKE, AND GET A LIFE, AND OBVIOUSLY WE ARE ALL WRONG!
LUIGI
COAST ALL YOU LIKE, DO ALL THE TESTS YOU LIKE, AND GET A LIFE, AND OBVIOUSLY WE ARE ALL WRONG!
LUIGI
MARIO99UK.............THANKYOU. BUT WE ARE WASTING OUR TIME WITH THIS ONE
LUIGI
LUIGI
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I've just noticed the idiots massive post edit. Half that crap wasn't there when I responded last.
What idiot would suggest turning the bloody ignition off when driving? Another for the Darwin awards I think.
THE GUY IS GOING TO KILL SOMEONE DURING ONE OF HIS ''TESTS'' JUST SO HE PROVE HE CAN SAVE 0.01P A MILE.:bang:
LUIGI
LUIGI
