Technical Brake Failure and Oil Leak Problem 64 500

[Mjyyc]

Hi everyone,

I have joined the classic fiat 500 club after admiring it 7+ years.

I purchased a very good condition vehicle, unfortunately on the drive back I experience two things:

1. The brakes were weak but working when I picked up the vehicle, however, after about 100 miles they completely stopped working. The brake fluid reservoir is full. There was a strange knocking noise from the front right wheel that came when I drove and stopped when pressed the brake pedal. Initial research showed it could be the master cylinder. But any additional insight would be welcome. Idk if it helps but the Pin behind the brake pedal that goes into the master cylinder does not seem to be connected, rather just sitting in there. I'm not sure if thats what the design is.

2. Going uphill on the motorway at around 80kph I felt a judder and downshifted to 3. The engine oil light (which randomly flickered before) now came fully on. I pulled over and found the oddest thing - Oil had kind of sprayed onto the top of the engine, the top of the engine bay, and the engine cover (it was dripping out of the vents). I checked the oil level and it was well above the minimum line so I immediately topped it up, and the light went away. Next 20-30 miles I kept the speed low, but to be cautious is stopped again to find the oil was still spraying, albeit a lot less. Initial research around the forums showed some Tubes that are usually faulty but there is no oil leak from the that side. It's somewhere around the carb, the large pipe coming from the air filter to oil filler cap and plugs. My guess is oil sprayed out from a loose air suction pipe or recirculation pipe (judging from the angle of the oil spray)

I'm a bit disheartened but I know if I seek help, i shall find it so I'm trying to not let it bring me down. I hope you guys can help.

P.s. if you know any good mechanics in SW London to help with this work that would be appreciated as well.

Cheers
MJ

Oil was mainly around areas 9, 7 and 3.

 

[bugsymike]

Personally if you have only just bought the vehicle and presumably for a fair amount of money I would be inclined to contact the previous owner regarding redress, as the items you have mentioned require urgent attention and possibly some expenditure and potentially dangerous!
Was it a private sale, did the seller indicate repair before use on the road, did they mention any known faults, anything in writing?
You mention :- I purchased a very good condition vehicle, unfortunately on the drive back I experience two things:
Clearly that is not the case, did you have a experienced mechanic with you to inspect prior to purchase?
I would contact the owner before attempting to repair anything, as they could say you caused the issues.

 

[the hobbler]

Personally if you have only just bought the vehicle and presumably for a fair amount of money I would be inclined to contact the previous owner regarding redress, as the items you have mentioned require urgent attention and possibly some expenditure and potentially dangerous!
Was it a private sale, did the seller indicate repair before use on the road, did they mention any known faults, anything in writing?
You mention :- I purchased a very good condition vehicle, unfortunately on the drive back I experience two things:
Clearly that is not the case, did you have a experienced mechanic with you to inspect prior to purchase?
I would contact the owner before attempting to repair anything, as they could say you caused the issues.

The best place to go to in SW London would be "Ricambio International". They are at:--11 Manor Road, Wallington, SM6 0BW----0208-669-3800. The person to speak to is:--Franco Roselli.
Personally, I would suggest that the first thing that you do is contact the vendor and advise him of the situation, and then have the car TRAILERED/TRUCKED to Ricambio for them to do an inspection and report. DON'T GET ANY RECTIFICATION WORK DONE until you have advised the vendor of the cause of the problems, and the estimated cost to rectify the faults. He can then decide on a course of action that won't cost you. If HE decides to carry out the rectification work himself, I would suggest that when the rectification has been done, you re-submit the car to Franco for him to inspect the rectification work. Whether you decide to advise the vendor that you intend to get his rectification work (if he does the repairs) checked, is up to you---personally, I would!

 

[Mjyyc]

Hi guys,

Thank you for the insight @the hobbler and @bugsymike. I agree that it's the right course of action, however, I purchased it through a private sale, not a vendor. Personally, I've never bought a new or used car in the UK, this is my first in the UK. So are there any courses of action/rights for private purchase in the UK?

I have tried ringing the seller twice today but no luck yet. I've left a WhatsApp message for them as well.

I also spoke to Ricambio and they suggested someone closer to me - https://www.firelamotors.co.uk/ - they seem like a top shop for these. Seeing them tomorrow. I'll follow your instructions Hobbler and see if the seller gets back to me by then.

Cheers

 

[the hobbler]

Hi guys,

Thank you for the insight @the hobbler and @bugsymike. I agree that it's the right course of action, however, I purchased it through a private sale, not a vendor. Personally, I've never bought a new or used car in the UK, this is my first in the UK. So are there any courses of action/rights for private purchase in the UK?

I have tried ringing the seller twice today but no luck yet. I've left a WhatsApp message for them as well.

I also spoke to Ricambio and they suggested someone closer to me - https://www.firelamotors.co.uk/ - they seem like a top shop for these. Seeing them tomorrow. I'll follow your instructions Hobbler and see if the seller gets back to me by then.

Cheers

That is good of Franco to suggest somebody closer to you. I have been away from that part of London (used to live at the top end of Penge, bottom of Crystal Palace Park Road) for many years, hence only knowing about Franco. The fact that you bought it from a private buyer I wouldn't have thought precluded him from some sort of responsibility---what would have happened if the brake problem had caused a major accident? or the oil leak spilling onto the exhaust started a fire? There is always the old fashioned system of sending a "recorded delivery" letter---if he signs for it, he has received it! Do you have a lawyer among your friends?---this might be the time to pull a favour!

 

[bugsymike]

Does sound a little suspicious seller being hard to contact.

 

[Goldnrust]

I'm sorry to say if it's a private sale, there's very little you can do. It's up to the buyer to satisfy themselves with the car before completing the purchase. The above advice makes sense if you have bought from a dealer, but I personally think you're wasting your time it was a private sale.

The seller could be a scoundrel who hid things from you, or it could just be bad luck and the car was sold in good faith. A lot of classic cars just getting pottered around to and from local car shows for a few days each summer, when you suddenly ask that same car to do a longer trip up the motorway, then problems can show up.

Either way its a rubbish situation and I'm sorry to hear you're having the problems. Hopefully the recommended garage will get you back on the road soon for minimal costs. Brake master cylinders are not expensive, and there are possible simple solutions, like a blocked breather (the tube labeled 5 on your picture), to your oil spitting issue.

 

[bugsymike]

Many years ago I had a customer who bought a car privately from a woman, on inspection after purchase !!! I found several things needing urgent attention, he went back to her two weeks later, her reply was "tough sh*t, I have just spent the 5K on a holiday and there is nothing left!".
We often slag off the trade salesmen but the public can be just as good at it.
As an apprentice I bought a Fiat 600 (suicide doors etc) non runner due to "flat battery" on towing the car home and starting the car after purchase the bottom end bearings were rattling their heads off! So we can all fall for it.
Mind you I have seen many cars on Main Dealer forecourts in the past with the clamp marks on the sills indicating serious body work had been involved using a bodyshop jig.
One customer's father asked me to check his exhaust whilst returning his daughters car, he had recently bought the Renault Laguna from a local Main Dealer assured by the salesman that it was a company directors car from new, on inspection I found that it had been involved in an accident and the marks etched into the windows said Godfrey Davis, so car hire company, he rang the number and they confirmed it had been in an accident and they had sold it off cheap at auction!
Needless to say the dealership never sold another car to this man!

 

[Mjyyc]

Quick update for you guys.

The seller did call back and I explained the situation. It did seem to have caught him off guard. He explained he had done short sprints and a couple of shows with it and had no issues. He did not offer any compensation for the problems but did ask to be kept updated on what the mechanic says.

The mechanic did an initial confirmation that the master cylinder and pipes are in great condition (practically new he said with some weathering) confirming it was well restored a few years ago. He's assured me it's the shoes or the little brake hydraulics in the wheel hub, which he'll be inspecting tomorrow.

Thanks @Goldnrust for the oil tip. I suspect it's that pipe as well. I tightened the clamp and ran the engine for a while, no leaks. I've asked the mechanic to take a look at that as well.

 

[the hobbler]

Many years ago I had a customer who bought a car privately from a woman, on inspection after purchase !!! I found several things needing urgent attention, he went back to her two weeks later, her reply was "tough sh*t, I have just spent the 5K on a holiday and there is nothing left!".
We often slag off the trade salesmen but the public can be just as good at it.
As an apprentice I bought a Fiat 600 (suicide doors etc) non runner due to "flat battery" on towing the car home and starting the car after purchase the bottom end bearings were rattling their heads off! So we can all fall for it.
Mind you I have seen many cars on Main Dealer forecourts in the past with the clamp marks on the sills indicating serious body work had been involved using a bodyshop jig.
One customer's father asked me to check his exhaust whilst returning his daughters car, he had recently bought the Renault Laguna from a local Main Dealer assured by the salesman that it was a company directors car from new, on inspection I found that it had been involved in an accident and the marks etched into the windows said Godfrey Davis, so car hire company, he rang the number and they confirmed it had been in an accident and they had sold it off cheap at auction!
Needless to say the dealership never sold another car to this man!

I was at work today (got fed up with retirement, soretired fromit!) and threw the question regarding possible recompense to the other w/shop staff. Sadly, the answer was as satated above by 'bugsymike'. It would seem that the only chance of getting any recompense is if the car was sold as "mechanically sound"---which it obviously wasn't----check the wording on the advert. Please keep us advised as to the final outcome--(a) it would be interesting and, (b) it might be of help to someone in the future Sadly, I fear that this sad episode might be a classic case of "Caveat Emptor"

 

[Mjyyc]

Quick update:

Brakes: No leaks were found. Master cylinder was worn, and drum cylinders were weeping and worn. all have been replaced. Two lines were a bit crusty, replaced those as well with copper lines (the rest were replaced when the car was restored)
Parts £220 + £400 for labor (is this reasonable?) + £124 VAT = £744

Oil leak: The breather hose was loose where it connects to the engine near the oil cap - tightened it myself before the mechanic and no oil issues since
Total cost: Elbow grease.

P.S. I did ask the seller if he'd be open to recompense given the £1300 extra I've had to spend on it plus the dangerous situation. It's a longshot but lets hope for the best.

 

[the hobbler]

Quick update:

Brakes: No leaks were found. Master cylinder was worn, and drum cylinders were weeping and worn. all have been replaced. Two lines were a bit crusty, replaced those as well with copper lines (the rest were replaced when the car was restored)
Parts £220 + £400 for labor (is this reasonable?) + £124 VAT = £744

Oil leak: The breather hose was loose where it connects to the engine near the oil cap - tightened it myself before the mechanic and no oil issues since
Total cost: Elbow grease.

At current labour rates, this equates to a mornings work---I would say that is a fair labour charge (the master-cylinder can be a mite on the fiddly side to repace). Maybe the seller could be asked to make a contribution---nothing ventured#######

 

[Mjyyc]

At current labour rates, this equates to a mornings work---I would say that is a fair labour charge (the master-cylinder can be a mite on the fiddly side to repace). Maybe the seller could be asked to make a contribution---nothing ventured#######

I guess the only bad thing about owning a classic in London is you have no space to work on cars yourself. I have 3 large tool cabinets and space for 5 cars at our house in Canada. One space is occupied by a 64 Mercedes.

Fingers crossed for the seller to contribute.