Technical Blue smoke on cold start

[jdm89]

Hey guys,

Looked through a few of the threads on here and not really sure of any definitive answer...but basically on a cold start my JTD (16v multijet) will let out a puff (fairly big) of blue smoke.

It's not parked on a hill, or on any steep incline for any long period - my drive is flat. I only bought it a few weeks ago so has a 6 month warranty (hopefully anything needing attention will be covered) and obviously it's getting warmer now outside so I assume it isn't a cold morning related issue.

I've looked back through some of the service papers and 1 of the injectors was leaking at one point but that was fixed or replaced (I can't remember exactly I'll have to look again for detail). It was serviced by the dealer before I bought it (though no oil change to my knowledge as only 3k miles between previous service and most recent service before I bought it) but no report of any issue, even if only speculative, at that point.

Do you think it is anything to worry about? Oil levels look fine, no performance issues and no warning lights. Just a lil smoke Thanks!

 

[schumraid]

A little blue smoke on a diesel is normal, it's just oil being burnt off IIRC . As long as it clears quickly and the car isn't burning an unusual amount of oil then it's nothing to worry about

 

[jdm89]

You see, now that is what I was hoping...but my old JTD never used to do that? Never ever saw any smoke from that (well, sometimes black on hard accel )

 

[Peat]

I don't wish to alarm you but ISTR reading that a large puff of blue smoke on start up from cold was a warning sign that the turbo was in need of attention.

 

[jdm89]

I don't wish to alarm you but ISTR reading that a large puff of blue smoke on start up from cold was a warning sign that the turbo was in need of attention.

JUST what I wanted to hear

I shall look at my warranty booklet and at least arrange a health check or something...thanks.

 

[richydraper]

whip the intake off and try to 'jiggle' the spindle there should be NO PLAY in ANY direction. do you get the puffs on startup or when your pushing boost? and for how long?

 

[jdm89]

whip the intake off and try to 'jiggle' the spindle there should be NO PLAY in ANY direction. do you get the puffs on startup or when your pushing boost? and for how long?

Will try this (is the intake easy to get to on a JTD? or should i say what does it look like? )...its literally just when I start the engine cold...none noticeable (that I have seen) when accelerating or anything like that...

 

[sussexa]

i have the same thing in my 16v, had it as long as ive had the car (was on 10,000 miles)i was worried at first but never got any worse really.was a lot more noticable after a full decat exhaust which also made me think its the turbine oil seal weeping slightly, worse with decat due to less backpressure.keep a regular eye on oil level i have never had to top up between oil changes and i change it every 5,000 or 6,000 miles.
look at a few of my youtubes
heres a cold start after 8hrs plus(only ever been after standing for a few hours/overnight)(2 years ago)

heres a recent rolling road(no blue smoke at all under load,little bit of black)
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/user/sussexa#p/u/7/-AAdfsMnmh0"]YouTube - sussexa's Channel[/ame]

maybe its a bit worse than that now (with decat)but still clears as quick(35,000 miles)
a few other 16v owners had similar issue have another search ,im sure one went to tech center and fiat came back with its normal
heres an extract from the thread from 2008

https://www.fiatforum.com/stilo/137741-blue-smoke-start-up-multijet-150-a-6.html

Finally got a response out of Fiat today (4 weeks from complaint tomorrow), not exactly professional.

Before I give a brief on what Fiat have said, I have been monitoring my cars smoke condition over the last 4 weeks. I am happy that the problem is "FUEL" not oil. I would suggest that you dont spend any money on trying to cure the problem, because, in a nut shell you wont be able to. It all about the engine overfueling at start up, in cold conditions - the colder the worse it is. With ambient temperatures of 14 degrees+ I dont have the problem.

However, I dont exactly know why. The obvious choice would be that the ECU's map is not right. But there are other possibilities that it could be. Work friends of mine who own Vauxhalls with the same engine and the same year of manufacture dont have the problem........Which lends me not to think its the ECU's map directly. Indirectly.......It could be the map. My theory is that Fiat have used up surplus stock of ECU's designated for cars to be sold to a hot climate (obsolescence) or they have modified a position for one of the engines sensors fitted into an engine part, and only introduced the mod to the Bravo, Saab, and Vauxhall ranges (so we are driving Prototypes, which I know Fiat do do. Imagine 20,000 field trial cars - heaven for a manufacturer).

Ok so here it is Fiats official responce.
Blue smoke at cold start is "NORMAL" for the Fiat Stilo 150 JTD Multijet.

This is obviously a carefully worded statement. Yes its normal for us to have blue smoke, because we have all got it - simple. However, its not normal for any engine to have this feature, especially when its thrown in free as part of the "Performance Characteristics" ( Iam always looking for a bargain).

Very thoughtful of Fiat to add such a feature - I wonder why no other Manufacturer has thought of it. Fiat should use it as part of their Marketing Programme. The Italian Job with built in smoke screen to help loose the Poilce on the get away.................!

If I get any further with the problem I will report on this thread - however I dont hold out much hope. __________________

hope this helps

 

[jdm89]

Many thanks for this...makes sense that I should ignore it (or at least not worry) - I did check the oil level and it is fine...it was also replaced a few weeks ago as it was serviced before I got it. Everything else is running fine an I've had no problems so fingers crossed!

Definitely an interesting response from Fiat though...maybe if I ever sell a car in the future and it puffs out smoke when it starts and misfires or something I'll just say it's "normal" too?

 

[sussexa]

another thing to make me think its more likely oil and not fuel now is i did a few oil changes on selenia 5w40 then tried mobil 1 0w40 and then tried ****s titan gt2 5w40 and i thnk it was worse with that in (but was around decat time so could have been either)so went back to mobil 1 0w40.but got a mobil1 5w40 td oil to try next.
sometimes strangely i,ll still get a clear start still after standing overnight but most days its still as it was in 1st vid.

 

[schumraid]

Yup, it would more than likely be oil, unburnt fuel is that large puff of black smoke you remapped-farm-machinary-joy-riding nutters leave behind everytime you floor it

(I'm not jealous, honestly )

 

[johnson550]

I would have thought if it was oil it would show on the dipstick. Also unburnt diesel dosent always mean black smoke if you were to pour some diesel on to something very hot and it didnt ignite you would get blue smoke which could mean something like too much diesel on glowplugs at start.

 

[jdm89]

I would have thought if it was oil it would show on the dipstick. Also unburnt diesel dosent always mean black smoke if you were to pour some diesel on to something very hot and it didnt ignite you would get blue smoke which could mean something like too much diesel on glowplugs at start.

Would be interesting - all of the glow plugs were replaced before I got it when they serviced...so I assume they're ok? I'm thinking maybe the engine is either burning a little oil as most suggest or maybe the engine is too fuel-rich just on startup?

 

[sussexa]

i did the 4 glow plugs a few months back just incase but no difference.at least i have 4 spares to swap out every few years to save them seizing in, the originals were very clean almost new looking for 35,000 miles.

 

[sussexa]

turbo now confirmed as cause for my blue smoke, just pulled turbo and turbine housing is wet with oil, exhaust manifold bone dry/light soot covering.
turbo not in bad condition little shaft play radially(no sign of contact with housings) and 0.08-0.12mm play axially(can be felt by hand)
measured a v/low milage spare axially 0.02mm max
pulled as started smoking more and more and now even at pulling away from junctions and idling at traffic lights, also found oil dripping out of v band to exhaust and dripping on drive.
please bear in mind im at 40,000 miles now but it has done it since i had car at 10,000 and its had a hard 30,000 miles since ive had it with additional power- heat-boost-shaft speed.and its not been a turbo failure i have decided to pull it just incase it ranaway(and embarrassment from smoke- cars started hanging back behind me at lights)
did oil change 2000 miles ago and has barely dropped 1/8 of dip stick if that.

 

[cpc]

Mine has a bit of smoke on start up for a few seconds in the morning and has done 49k now, should i be concerned?

 

[sussexa]

I don't think you should, I've been on + 35hp and suffering boost creep up to +5psi + water methanol injection for a couple of years.Plus recently sartre playing with higher boost requested.
Nothing lasts forever and I've been planning and making an uprated turbo last year just hadn't finished it yet.
I was going to swap any time anyway, just the extra burning oil and dripping out of v band has made me hurry up a bit
Like I said before turbo still looks and feels not too bad, haven't split the old one yet to see why letting oil past, will update when I do.

 

[Shadeyman]

sussexa, any chance of you uploading a few photos of what your doing?

Id be really interested to see the turbo off and in bits.

 

[sussexa]

Yes will do I have plenty of pics from stripping and machining spare turbo.
I'm waiting to see what it runs like first, as I don't want to lead anyone down the same path before testing the finished turbo.
I,ll start a turbo strip thread after.