General Anyone for 2.4 Engine Tuning??

[Insane]

So at the Dutch Stilo Club we agreed on 15% so we can compare easily.

The Selespeed remap is nothing special to be honest. The only thing it does is set the RPM limit a bit higher. Without the remap it will shift automatically at around 6400 rpm. With this remap it will shift at 7200 rpm. This way you have a little advantage in sprints

This is very usefull info 15%

Do you know what kind of equipment they use to change the rev limit in the selespeed ecu? I can not find anyone that does this in my country and would be useful since my engine ecu rev limit is now at 7200 but can not use it.

 

[styles]

Measuring a Selespeed on a dyno is officially not possible indeed, because u can't measure the loss in the transmission. But since the selespeed is nothing more than a robotized manual transmission it's quite safe to say that it has about 15% loss in it's transmission just like a normal manual gearbox. We even measured the loss of a Abarth with a manual gearbox and it had a loss of 14,8%.
So at the Dutch Stilo Club we agreed on 15% so we can compare easily.

15% seems abit low more like 20-25 even for a good manual gearbox.

 

[SchooweeNick]

Measuring a Selespeed on a dyno is officially not possible indeed,

So at the Dutch Stilo Club we agreed on 15% so we can compare easily.

So you're guessing your bhp then?

 

[Oldschool]

This is very usefull info 15%

Do you know what kind of equipment they use to change the rev limit in the selespeed ecu? I can not find anyone that does this in my country and would be useful since my engine ecu rev limit is now at 7200 but can not use it.

I am aware of the thumb rule being 15% to estimate the transmission losses.

But from experience having spent a lot of time on quite a lot of rolling roads this rule is a rather poor way to estimate. The RR i personally like best because it is maintained to a very high standard and therefore (and because of the vast experience in mapping by the operators) used for manufacturers doing some of their development work there (mainly trouble shooting).

We measured from 12% to 47% percent losses the latter figure was on a fairly new gearbox, which certainly is an extreme example. Still, we had quite a number of carrs there, which had losses just under 30%.

Also it is important to realise that the transmission losses do not increase linear even if it is not all that far off.

Also the torque delivery and the resulting power curves do not increase in the same ratio. Once peak power is reached the engine is capable of higher revs but power is tailing off, where the losses still are increasing.

We tried all sorts of things to trick the Selespeed gearbox into neutral, but couldn't achieve it without doing serious damage. Our contacts at Fiat in the country and overseas couldn't helpe us there either.

Therefore we had to abandon the testing to get true values, which is changing now because we have access to manual geared 2.4s.

Finally it is worth mentioning that we have had measured with the same car the same fuel on the same RR with virtually the same ambient air prassure done by the same operator differences of over 4% on the wheel due to varying weather conditions within a few days, which makes on the 2.4 about 7bhp difference.

 

[styles]

To add to oldschool,RR at 500miles old my car had
max power 177hp @6000
max torque 162lb @3750
trans drag 44hp
power at wheel 133=25%loss.
The graph shows it tails off after alot after 6200
so tellin the ECU to change later is pointless the Sele acts just like a normal auto when max torque or power or engine limits depending on drivin situation it will change gear as it sees fit.

i had a auto car before and its ave habits was @2500 cruisin it would up gear.6000-6400 up gear hard acceleration even through it red lined at 7200.

The only way to get the engine to have and use full rev range to red line is to seriously mod the internals of the engine aswell hence why some cars red line is max power like Interga Type R or Pug 106 Rallye MK1.

 

[Baser]

Baser what grade of fuel have/do you used?

I'm using Octane 98

The graph shows it tails off after alot after 6200
so tellin the ECU to change later is pointless the Sele acts just like a normal auto when max torque or power or engine limits depending on drivin situation it will change gear as it sees fit.

Mine continues rising until 6800 and leveling after that. It stays level right up until atleast 7200.
The Selespeed gearbox doesnt act like a normal auto when in manual mode! In manual mode it doesnt take into account the drivin situation, max torque or whatever. It only shifts when i tell it to or when it reaches the max rev (in my case 7200 rpm). So it's usefull!
Your story is only (kinda) true when its in full auto mode

So you're guessing your bhp then?

Not really... like i said we dyno'ed a couple Abarths and taking into account 15% loss they all ended up with about 170bhp (+/- 5bhp). So unless Fiat ripped us all off it should be about right.
Call it whatever u like... i consider it an educated guess. Until proven otherwise it's the best we have. Like Oldschool said it's impossible to measure it.

Do you know what kind of equipment they use to change the rev limit in the selespeed ecu? I can not find anyone that does this in my country and would be useful since my engine ecu rev limit is now at 7200 but can not use it.

They developed their own hard- and software to do this. In the case of the Selespeed computer they simply take it apart and put the EPROM into a programmer and reprogram it.

 

[styles]

I'm using Octane 98
Mine continues rising until 6800 and leveling after that. It stays level right up until atleast 7200.
The Selespeed gearbox doesnt act like a normal auto when in manual mode! In manual mode it doesnt take into account the drivin situation, max torque or whatever. It only shifts when i tell it to or when it reaches the max rev (in my case 7200 rpm). So it's usefull!
Your story is only (kinda) true when its in full auto mode.

They developed their own hard- and software to do this. In the case of the Selespeed computer they simply take it apart and put the EPROM into a programmer and reprogram it.

Only because your telling it to do it now through reprogramming it

 

[Baser]

hehe.. ok man no problem

 

[alfanige]

I do pity poor Pete on this one. There are 11 different software builds across the Stilo 2.4 that they will have to develop - good luck mate, it was a pain in the ass for us to do! Mind you , you will at least know what to do with them by the end of the first few lol!

As for testing them - its pretty obvious how to do it and get the results, if you know what you are doing.

 

[PNL]

As for testing them - its pretty obvious how to do it and get the results, if you know what you are doing.

I think that kind of sarcastic comment would put me off having any work done by you :shakehead

 

[alfanige]

I think that kind of sarcastic comment would put me off having any work done by you :shakehead

No, sorry you read it wrong. It was meant as "trust Pete to know what he is doing", no sarcasm was intended at all - if you read any of our posts, that is the LAST thing we do. We never diss any other company unless the product is really crap (i.e. K&N 57i!)

So, just to clear it up

Trust Pete to know what he is doing when he tests the output of the 2.4 Selespeed, he will know how to do it.

Sorry for any confusion and thank you PNL for bringin it up without being melodramatic

 

[Baser]

There are 11 different software builds across the Stilo 2.4 that they will have to develop

Just curious... Do you know what the main differences are between those versions?

 

[alfanige]

Just curious... Do you know what the main differences are between those versions?

Sorry mate, I didnt want to hijack Pete's thread as it was, it was a wish him luck post. Yes we do and no, we wont let all and sundry know - we spent many hours on these and it cost a lot of time and money so its not given away freely!

 

[Baser]

Too bad.... i don't need details (i understand), but it would be nice to know which versions solves which problem or something like that.

 

[Oldschool]

Too bad.... i don't need details (i understand), but it would be nice to know which versions solves which problem or something like that.

If it all were that straight forward, I neither would have lost a lot of hair nor would the remaining one not have turned grey.

During the production cycle regulations change as do certain production and development processes. Demands on the market might change too and finally manufacturers realise that things can be done or have to be done different.

You can't just alter versions. There is much more involved in it. And I think you better leave it with this as you will be bored to read the needed explanations and how far it is necessary to go into the technical problems associated with changes forced by politics etc.

 

[Lesbquick]

I'm at present trying to help Pete (oldschool / GSR) with anything he needs to seriously look into some proper engine mods i.e. Porting, polishing, gas flowing, camshaft's and possibly further..

I know I am desperate to bring out the potential in mine... :devil:

Anyone else???

We seem to be loosing the thread here. Anyone for 2.4 tuning.

I am and have asked just about everywhere with great disapointment.

Easy option is yes, Remap, Exhaust and Induction and pounds/bhp increase appears the best value but limited to what 25 bhp at very best.

Supercharger is very expensive for about 60 bhp and from the sound of coments is well dodgy.

I'm trying to get a price for combining parts from Coupe Turbo but to get the power I need forged pistons and probably rods, not to mention cooling etc.

If you're really serious TorqueItalia do a complete conversion at around £10k. But with a gaurunteed 450 bhp it actually works out cheaper than messing around half heartedly.

Problem is I don't have ten grand. Can anyone help? Either other options or £10k?

 

[puntoboy1985]

yeah im interested in tuning mine
count me in:slayer:

 

[Kubi]

I personally want to let pete rolling road my car prior to fitting new induction kit, then once done see what improvement this makes and go from there.

I think cams are a good start, then like pete has said looking at the manifold for a few more gee's looks good. Re-map after that and see where we are i think.


Pete give me a shout when u wish to see my car. Cannot wait for filter and hoses. Keep up the good work.

 

[SchooweeNick]

We seem to be loosing the thread here. Anyone for 2.4 tuning.


Easy option is yes, Remap, Exhaust and Induction and pounds/bhp increase appears the best value but limited to what 25 bhp at very best.


Problem is I don't have ten grand. Can anyone help? Either other options or £10k?

Yeah the thread is about tuning but getting more involved maybe.. I have supplied Pete with an engine to play with and see where improvements may lie.. i.e. cams porting polishing flowing etc possibly more..

Not sure if it's a help but... (7,12,16,24,32,34) but I keep my fingers crossed!!!!

To be honest we could all go down the turbo route and swap stuff over but what I really want is a powerful 2.4 nat asp engine with some big brass balls! I refuse to believe that any 2.4 5 CYL engine can only push 200bhp(ish). when there are 2.0 cars easily going beyond this!! :bang:

I WILL GET THERE!! :devil:

 

[Oldschool]

With the induction we are getting close. Hopefully the tool goes on Monday to the factory.