General Another JTD power issue - interesting

[RogerS]

Tried searching for theses specific issues in most of the relevant forums and can't find this one - yet! Apologies if it's a repeat. Lost power in the van about 3 weeks ago, quite suddenly. Management light came on after a few miles, but not straight away. Basically boils down to no turbo power although it can be heard spinning at the right revs and the engine management light is on. No smoke, always starts OK, and runs smoothly enough. Fuel consumption OK as well. Took it to a local garage as the nearest main dealer hasn't got a great reputation. They cleared 'lots of fault codes', serviced the van and returned to me. Same problem with power and the light returned after about 50 miles. Took it back, spoke to the technician and he said he'd check the diagnostics. Cleared the light, but not the problem. Since then I've had to do a few miles on a motorway and the power suddenly returned at exactly 70 mph in 5th, which I can replicate time after time, and the same in 4th at about 55 (I guess same revs or boost or similar). Trouble is, go below these speeds and the power dies again. Before I take it back to the garage, any specifics here which I can suggest to them, as I'd rather give them another chance, and they've been helpful as they can, and I don't want them guessing and changing bits that aren't needed. Or do I take it to the main dealer and hope for the best??

Thanks

 

[MALIN POPESCU]

seems it is the EGR control. try to obtain a print of fault code(s) included details of instant parameters. Over 3000 rpm the EGR is closed and with cut control.

 

[baloo_bear]

Tried searching for theses specific issues in most of the relevant forums and can't find this one - yet! Apologies if it's a repeat. Lost power in the van about 3 weeks ago, quite suddenly. Management light came on after a few miles, but not straight away. Basically boils down to no turbo power although it can be heard spinning at the right revs and the engine management light is on. No smoke, always starts OK, and runs smoothly enough. Fuel consumption OK as well. Took it to a local garage as the nearest main dealer hasn't got a great reputation. They cleared 'lots of fault codes', serviced the van and returned to me. Same problem with power and the light returned after about 50 miles. Took it back, spoke to the technician and he said he'd check the diagnostics. Cleared the light, but not the problem. Since then I've had to do a few miles on a motorway and the power suddenly returned at exactly 70 mph in 5th, which I can replicate time after time, and the same in 4th at about 55 (I guess same revs or boost or similar). Trouble is, go below these speeds and the power dies again. Before I take it back to the garage, any specifics here which I can suggest to them, as I'd rather give them another chance, and they've been helpful as they can, and I don't want them guessing and changing bits that aren't needed. Or do I take it to the main dealer and hope for the best??

Thanks

have they checked the mass air flow meter a common problem on these for losing power

 

[Stumpi]

It's not the MAF, or the EGR directly.
I'm suffering a similar fault, but with no engine management light.
My problem is that the van has reduce power overall, at 40 in 3rd, 50 in 4th and 60 in 5th there is a light juddering under load too.

I disconnected the two EGR control valves last night on the way home, and while it stopped the turbo working completely rendering the van a slug, it did eliminate the judder.

So, my question is, are these two EGR electronic valves prone to fault?

Oh, and I've already replaced the EGR and MAF.

I've had this issue since a local garage have been under the bonnet, and wonder if there is anything ther could have damaged.

 

[a1ant]

Hi mate,

Disconnecting the EGR will have put the ECU into "limp" mode which is why you would have had no acceleration. TBH your problem sounds more like a boost solenoid problem. Possibly a split pipe to the boost solonoid, or split pipe from the boost solonoid to the turbo wastegate. Very common on the JTD's and would account for the jerkyness under load. A faulty EGR does not normally cause jerkyness, just loss of power.

Have you driven with the MAF disconnected? Just to rule it out once and for all. It will use default values, and so if the problem dissapeears when its diconnected it points to the MAF.

To test the EGR, you can blank it off with a thin sheet of metal (only temporarily) Take it for a drive with the blanking plate in place and see if the symtoms persist. If not, it points to a fualty EGR valve.

With reguards to it being after it hand been in for service, yest its quite possible that when replacing the air filter they ould have pinched the boost solonid tubing, and thus splitting it.


Hope thats of some help,
Alan

 

[Stumpi]

Hi Alan,

Pretty much what I was thinking, it's nice to have a second opinion though.

There are two boost solenoids under the bonnet, do they both go to the same place or do they work independantly of each other?
I'll check the pipes tomorrow on both.

Are these solenoids expensive to replace? Is it worth just getting new ones?

Thanks for the quick response.

Oh, and yes, tried disconnecting the MAF, it made no difference.

Thanks again.

Dave

 

[Stumpi]

Well, checked all the pipes last night, ans all are 100% fine, which was a bit disappointing, thought I was onto a winner there.

I even swapped the two solenoids round to see if that made a difference and it didn't.

Does anybody have any other suggestions as to what may be causing this.
Could it actually be the turbo?

Cheers.

 

[robertk2003]

Hey Stumpi i had a problem like this,The fault was a split pipe however it isn;t the easiest to get to,
Right under the passenger side corner of the front bumper a pipe had "split" or rather FIAT had designed a rubber pipe to fit through a hole in some plastic shielding that was so sharp i could have shaved with it.
From memory it came from the intercooler. And is only about 40cm long (ish!)
Made my car a pig to drive, and quite embarrassing to boot.
Also casued a fair bit of smoke! (Enough to put 007 to shame to be honest!)

 

[Stumpi]

Thanks,
Seems I'm going to have to remove check refit all the pipes, but will start with the one you suggest.

Is it possible that the little solenoids go up the wall?

However, I must stress, that this problem appeared "overnight" after my local garage had had the van. So I'm hoping it's not an expensicve component failure.

 

[PhilM Star]

I had a similar problem only yesterday. Someone had used a cable tie instead of a jubilee or tube clip to join the turbo air input pipe, this had caused low power then enginefault and "safe mode" engine performance when it parted completly. Had this fixed and the performance came back. Still have a problem with occasional loss of power at low revs and have read Argonoughts post about his cracked pipe with interest.

 

[PhilM Star]

There seem to be quite a few posts I could add this experience to but to follow on from my last one. Yesterday evening after an afternoon of snow and cold I left work, jumped in my car and nothing. Dash showed EBD failure which most people say is the battery. Called out breakdown and it still wouldnt start with the jump leads from the breakdown van. The guy proved fuel was getting to the engine no blockages in air supply. I had cleaned the MAF and the turbo body at teh weekend so no issues there. I had put a J cloth over a broken vapour trap pipe so no crap going into the turbo. When trying to start got the occassional flicker of the glow plug light and injector sysmbol before it gave up trying to start. The mechanic said everything was in place and there is no reason for it not to start so he assumed the fuel was either not getting through the injectors or not being atomised properly. I got the train home. Car taken to garage today and I await their findings. Hope this is the root cause of the judder/ low power I have had laterley and the car will come back as good as new till the next thing happens

 

[Stumpi]

Well, I sold mine at the weekend.
And good riddance is all I can say.

I wish you luck with your issue, but expect there'll be another, and another to follow.

Very poor reliability on these engines. very poor.

 

[PhilM Star]

Ive had quite a few problems with this car but garages have advised me that most cars these days can have problems due to the complex nature of the technology now used. The new Mondao has been singled out by one garage as very unreliable in his opinion. I have had new steering column after it failed when jump started, new clutch which failed after 3 months and took the gearbox with it, new gearbox and another clutch. two new front springs. Three bonnet release levers as they just fall apart, all the plastic protection has broken of the underside, skywindow jammed (fiat said bring it in and well try and fix it, this forum told me just hold the switch in and it resets. Phoned local Fiat back and told them what to do next time!), plus all the usual items that wear out - brake disks and pads, tyres regularly, and light bulbs. Despite all this I really like the car and when it works its absolutley brilliant. I'm expecting the rear suspension to be next as i have done 124000 miles in it and am adding 130 a day weekdays. After this last thing I have to admit that i may have to let it go if this continues but what will i get instead of it? There's nothing on the market that appeals to me. I like the new Panda but its too small. A bigger version would be great so i guess the new Multipla is the nearest thing.

 

[PhilM Star]

Well it took two weeks for the garage to get my car to start. They said they had found part of the J cloth covering the vapour trap pipe in the inlet manifold. I was still getting glow plug message but thought this would clear itself after a few starts. It took some starting after collecting the car and leaving it outside work a few hours. Once I got going the car really flew and I thought everything was OK. I should have known better! Started getting the drop in power problem the next day and still the glow plug warning plus ABS and occassionally EDB. Travelled about 200 miles in it in three jouneys but on Saturday morning having loaded up with baggage and family the thing wouldnt start. Engine turned and I got the occasional splutter of a start which died after a few seconds. I would have thought that having turned over a couple of times the glow plugs wouldnt have been an issue but maybe i'm wrong. I ve started to think this is a genuine message and am going to get the multimeter on them when a get a minute and try spraying the connector with contact cleaner. Ive recently had a new gearbox and having read about a gearbox earth connector wonder if this is related.
Today I had a fan heater warming the engine for about half an hour but it still wouldnt start and I drained the battery.:bang:

Do you guys out there think I am on the right track with the glow plugs or could this be more debris in the inlet manifold. Fuel is definatley flowing so what could this be? Around £2500 has been spent on this car in the last few months so its getting to the point where It'll have to go if it doesnt get sorted soon!