Technical airbag module question

[RS6BRIT]

Hi chaps, I wonder if its possible to determine the type and part number of the airbag module based on the cars year ? The reason I ask this is that I bought a 500 for my daughter and it has the flashing mileage and Fuel cut off warning showing. A quick search showed a few possibilities. Firstly I checked and repaired the rear wiring leading to the boot (and that didn't solve it). So I assumed that the airbag module was faulty and promptly bought Multiecu and connectors. Went on and tried to do the Proxi align and that showed that the airbag module was "missing". I read that clearing the fault first may help so tried that, then proxi align, but now the airbag module doesn't even show up in the list of modules !?
When I got the car it was clear it had had a very minor shunt as the front bumper had a small crease in it, but not severe enough to deploy airbags, but what I'm now wondering is if the module registered the accident, or that indeed somehow the module was rendered inoperative and then the previous owner replaced it with the wrong one, would that explain the "missing" error ? if so how do I determine the correct part number for the car ? its a 2010 and a lot of the modules for sale seem to imply that they are 2012 onwards and that seems to be the type fitted to her car. As you can imagine I don't want to buy the same one that's fitted and then find the same issue. Any help or advive would be great

 

[RichardH13]

I'm no expert., but I did have a 500 written off after the airbags had deployed in an accident....

I always thought that if the airbag module activated, it had to be replaced, its a "one shot device".

I also thought that when its replaced it has to be matched to the car, I suppose that's the ECU etc This is the expensive bit.

So, is it possible that the module is OK, but it hasn't been matched to the car?

I hope this kind of helps....

 

[Baglady1990]

typecastboy will know! So hang on for his reply

 

[typecastboy]

Modules are by no means "one shot". When an accident occurs and an airbag or seatbelt is deployed it will then activate the module to put a light up on the dash. With most accidents where airbags are deployed the module will also contain "crash data". Crash data cannot be cleared by MES, whereas all other errors, once fixed, can easily be cleared.

If the module has crash data then it has to be sent off for that to be cleared, otherwise the airbag lights will never go off. I use a guy from eBay who is in Kent. It costs £35 and he turns it round the same day. The module is then as good as new.

I have had the errors you have had several times and it's not always the same reason. The most obvious is that the module is faulty, that's the most likely. It won't be the case that the wrong one was put in, unless the metal cased one is transposed for the black plastic cased one or vice versa. The cars up to mid 2010 had the metal cased one, after that, it's the black plastic cased one.

It could be the case that in the past water under the scuttle panel has built up which is very common as the drain plugs get bunged up and water can escape into the cabin and drip down onto the ECU eventually frying it.

It's more likely that the module has just broken. Now comes the tricky part. The modules are the same, however there are different software versions. In theory, they are interchangeable and I have successfully swapped modules like this several times. There are people on this forum who would disagree with this as they say that the module may be enough to put the light out, but how do you know when it comes to activation that it would do so. That is a point, that for me, the jury's out. However since this has been said I have always tried to get one of the same number. ECUs can be sent off for repair, depending on what is wrong with them, and I believe the same bloke in Kent who clears crash data also repairs them.

If I were you, I would first try to get a module with the same number as the one in your car. If you can't, get a similar one and plug it in and see if all the lights go out. They most likely will. If they do, then you could send the original ECU off and see if it will repair. Cost varies unfornately

If you put another module in and the same thing happens, then it's likely something else. From my experience . . . and stay with me here because this is going to sound a bit crazy, but from my experience it can be either the speedometer cluster or the clock spring. Both can throw up some crazy lights that just don't make sense.

Having said that, it comes down mainly to the fact that your ECU said "missing", that makes me think that the module is faulty. Take it out (3 x 10mm bolts), the one nearest the driver is a pain to get to, get the number from it and have a look on eBay. Most sellers list the number.

I think that's most likely going to be your issue. Hope that helps.

 

[RS6BRIT]

Thanks so much for the replies guys, its much appreciated. I guess the biggest thing is that other than "stop start unavailable", FUEL CUT OFF UNAVAILABLE" there are no other lights on. the air bag light itself isn't lit. There are other smaller issues though, like tghe rev counter is stuck at 5k and will move upwards when driven but wont go back down to zero even when off. I had wondered if this was related at all, and also even if the previous owner had been underhand and damaged the rev counter whuilst removing the bulb to the airbag light (if thats possible).

I'll maybe see if this one can be repaired or replaced as my first option, and then report back

 

[RichardH13]

Sounds like the speedo cluster needs to be changed anyway, if it was me, I'd do that first

Stop/start faulty could be just the battery, weird things happen when the battery starts to go. If the car has stood around then the battery could be dying.

Typecastboy knows best

 

[typecastboy]

Oh yes, if you’re already having issues with the speedo then that’s got to be your thing to try first. Leave the ECU alone for now.

One thing to check. Are you able to toggle the passenger airbag on and off? Does it even come up on the menu when you go through the settings by pressing the buttons on the speedo?

If not, then it’s definitely your speedo.

 

[jackwhoo]

The air bag light should be on for a few seconds when the key is turned to ignition on then go out . If this is not happening it is likely that someone has destroyed the bulb/led for the air bag in the speedo.
Follow typecast advice.
Good luck.

 

[RS6BRIT]

UPDATE

so the airbag module was reportedly faulty (I had this booked for repair before the advice on the speedo so had it done anyway). I got it bag, fitted it and did a proxy align, and it now is registered, BUT, I now have the air bags not available message along with the fuel cut off and start stop messages. The good news is the mileage is no longer flashing so at least that's sorted.

The errors (and there is one for virtually every airbag component) are below (but there are more that read the same as these but its a long list so just the first few I've posted up)

B0100-49 - Error inside the control unit - Internal electronic failure
U0019-87 - CAN line - Missing message B0112-1C - Side impact senor (passenger) - Voltage out of range
B0111-1C - Side impact sensor (driver's) - Voltage out of range
B0114-1B - Curtain airbag squib (driver) - Circuit resistance to high/above threshold
B0115-1B - Curtain airbag squib (passenger) - Circuit resistance to high/above threshold


Do you think this is likely caused by the speedo unit ? If so do I need to match the speedo part number up or will any for the same year and type do, and I just fit and do the Proxy align ? Lastly, I assume the mileage is stored in the ECU and will be transferred when aligned etc ?

thanks again for the help chaps!!

 

[typecastboy]

What are you using to read those codes? MultiECUscan will give you a better explanation but at face value it looks like your curtain airbags may be faulty. I don’t think it will be the speedo now.

I think it’s worth peeling back the headlining to expose the curtain bags (earth terminal disconnected first). At least visually inspecting them and the electrical plugs.

 

[RS6BRIT]

typecastboy, I haven't yet had time to actually visually inspect the airbags as work has been nuts. But today I thought I'd go and have another look in the 10 mins I had with MES and post up the complete fault codes in here for all to see and see if that helps. What is strange is that whilst I have the 'Airbag Failure please consult handbook' warning, I have no airbag lights whatsoever, not even on start up. And I still have the irritating start stop and fuel cut messages.

here is the list copied straight from the downloaded MES scan.

Scan vehicle for available modules and check each module for errors...
Body / BCM (Body Control Module)
Body Computer Delphi (312)
ISO Code: 40 83 D6 89 F7
VIN code: ZFA31200000484477
Hardware number: FI61BC03ML3 - Ver: 03
Software number: 28210555 - Ver: 0B07
Errors found:
B1053-86 - Inertia (FIS) switch command Engine Control Node - Signal/message invalid
B1052-87 - Inertia (FIS) switch command Airbag Node (NAB/ORC) - Missing message
B1033-13 - Daylights - Open circuit
Airbag / NAB/ORC (Airbag/Occupant Restraint Module)
Continental Airbag (Ep - PROXI)
ISO Code: EA 07 AE 89 FD
Hardware number: A2C53364294 - Ver: 07
Software number: 40399553110 - Ver: 0000
Errors found:
B0100-49 - Error inside the control unit - Internal electronic failure
U0019-87 - CAN line - Missing message
B0112-1C - Side impact senor (passenger) - Voltage out of range
B0111-1C - Side impact sensor (driver's) - Voltage out of range
B0114-1B - Curtain airbag squib (driver) - Circuit resistance to high/above threshold
B0115-1B - Curtain airbag squib (passenger) - Circuit resistance to high/above threshold
B0123-1B - Driver's abdominal pretensioner - Circuit resistance to high/above threshold
B0116-1B - Knee guard (driver's side) - Circuit resistance to high/above threshold
B0124-1B - Passenger's abdominal pretensioner - Circuit resistance to high/above threshold
B0113-1B - Driver airbag resistance (2nd stage) - Circuit resistance to high/above threshold
B0103-1B - Driver airbag resistance (1st stage) - Circuit resistance to high/above threshold
B0104-1B - Passenger airbag resistance (1st stage) - Circuit resistance to high/above threshold
B0105-1B - Passenger airbag resistance (2nd stage) - Circuit resistance to high/above threshold
B0106-1B - Driver's pretensioner resistance - Circuit resistance to high/above threshold
B0109-1B - Passenger side airbag resistance - Circuit resistance to high/above threshold
B0108-1B - Driver's side airbag resistance - Circuit resistance to high/above threshold
B0107-1B - Passenger pretensioner resistance - Circuit resistance to high/above threshold
Dashboard / IPC (Instrument Panel Cluster)
Instrument Panel Marelli
ISO Code: 32 83 34 07 45
Hardware number: 50014620002 - Ver: 01
Software number: 04000011737 - Ver: 0425
Dashboard / CTM (Convergence Telematic Module)
Convergence Marelli/Microsoft (Blue&Me)
ISO Code: B5 83 0B 85 9D
Hardware number: 05035505861 - Ver: 02
Software number: 05.003.9093 - Ver: 9093
************************************************************
VEHICLE SCAN REPORT
************************************************************
Scanning ...
Body / BCM (Body Control Module)
Body Computer Delphi (312)
ISO Code: 40 83 D6 89 F7
VIN code: ZFA31200000484477
Hardware number: FI61BC03ML3 - Ver: 03
Software number: 28210555 - Ver: 0B07
20/02/2021 18:30:52
vehicle diagnostics software for italian cars
2
Errors found:
B1053-86 - Inertia (FIS) switch command Engine Control Node - Signal/message invalid
B1052-87 - Inertia (FIS) switch command Airbag Node (NAB/ORC) - Missing message
B1033-13 - Daylights - Open circuit
Airbag / NAB/ORC (Airbag/Occupant Restraint Module)
Continental Airbag (Ep - PROXI)
ISO Code: EA 07 AE 89 FD
Hardware number: A2C53364294 - Ver: 07
Software number: 40399553110 - Ver: 0000
Errors found:
B0100-49 - Error inside the control unit - Internal electronic failure
U0019-87 - CAN line - Missing message
B0112-1C - Side impact senor (passenger) - Voltage out of range
B0111-1C - Side impact sensor (driver's) - Voltage out of range
B0114-1B - Curtain airbag squib (driver) - Circuit resistance to high/above threshold
B0115-1B - Curtain airbag squib (passenger) - Circuit resistance to high/above threshold
B0123-1B - Driver's abdominal pretensioner - Circuit resistance to high/above threshold
B0116-1B - Knee guard (driver's side) - Circuit resistance to high/above threshold
B0124-1B - Passenger's abdominal pretensioner - Circuit resistance to high/above threshold
B0113-1B - Driver airbag resistance (2nd stage) - Circuit resistance to high/above threshold
B0103-1B - Driver airbag resistance (1st stage) - Circuit resistance to high/above threshold
B0104-1B - Passenger airbag resistance (1st stage) - Circuit resistance to high/above threshold
B0105-1B - Passenger airbag resistance (2nd stage) - Circuit resistance to high/above threshold
B0106-1B - Driver's pretensioner resistance - Circuit resistance to high/above threshold
B0109-1B - Passenger side airbag resistance - Circuit resistance to high/above threshold
B0108-1B - Driver's side airbag resistance - Circuit resistance to high/above threshold
B0107-1B - Passenger pretensioner resistance - Circuit resistance to high/above threshold
Dashboard / IPC (Instrument Panel Cluster)
Instrument Panel Marelli
ISO Code: 32 83 34 07 45
Hardware number: 50014620002 - Ver: 01
Software number: 04000011737 - Ver: 0425
Dashboard / CTM (Convergence Telematic Module)
Convergence Marelli/Microsoft (Blue&Me)
ISO Code: B5 83 0B 85 9D
Hardware number: 05035505861 - Ver: 02
Software number: 05.003.9093 - Ver: 9093
COMPLETED
VEHICLE MAKE: fiat 500
VEHICLE MODEL:
VEHICLE YEAR:
SENDING DIAGNOSTIC REPORT ...

 

[jackwhoo]

Have you fixed/ replaced the faulty speedo unit?

 

[RS6BRIT]

Have you fixed/ replaced the faulty speedo unit?

No, but only because typecastboy seemed to think that was no longer the cause (although it is on the list of to do's)

 

[jackwhoo]

No, but only because typecastboy seemed to think that was no longer the cause (although it is on the list of to do's)[/QUOTE typecastboy

Could it be speedo cluster damaged to remove airbag warning light causing these further problems?

Cluster will need fixing / replacing at some point.

Best wishes

Jack

 

[RS6BRIT]

No, but only because typecastboy seemed to think that was no longer the cause (although it is on the list of to do's)[/QUOTE typecastboy

Could it be speedo cluster damaged to remove airbag warning light causing these further problems?

Cluster will need fixing / replacing at some point.

Best wishes

Jack

That my friend is a very good point !

 

[jackwhoo]

That my friend is a very good point ![/QUOTE

I should have explained putting typecastboy in post means typecast will get a notification about the developments and wanted him to know cluster not yet fixed.

thank you for taking my post in a positive manner

 

[typecastboy]

Well those errors are pretty much everything that the Airbag ECU controls including the fuel cut off so I think we can safely assume it's had it. Get it out, read the label on the top and see if you can get one on ebay with the same code. If not, get one from a similarly or same year car as yours and it should be fine. Install that, clear the codes using MES and then see where you are.