A Little help on a big engine

[Steve L]

I am interested (though not in the very near future) of dropping a 2.0L 20v coupe turbo engine in my Bravo 1.6 (yes i am serious) Ive been in contact with Avanti motorsport and they havent been in touch yet, maybe they think im joking, anyway i was just wondering if anyone would suggest getting into contact with a company that could help me out.

The reason i have not bought a HGT was
1. I couldnt afford one at the time.
2. The 2.0L HGT engine is not as powerful as the coupe 2.0L engine even when its not turbo'd
3. It would probably be cheaper to get an engine transplant than to turbo a HGT, plus i would end up with much more power and a standard engine with a standard turbo would be more reliable than a tuned HGT.
and 4. There is a little bit more modyfied engine parts for a coupe than a Bravo such as exhausts etc.

I would apprieciate any help or useful advice anyone can give.

Thanks

 

[Nigel]

Er...buy a coupe!

Whilst I admit to toying with doing the same as I couldn't have a coupe (They didn't do a roof rack - honest!) I was told by many an engineer that it wouldn't fit as the turbo bits would stick out of the bonnet.

Why don't you buy a Coupe yourself, it would be cheaper, hold better resale value, handle better without all the hassle. I dont know if there is enough room todo the conversion in a Marea though, any thoughts from the pipe and slipper drivers here? (only kidding as I never thought to get one myself, and is now what I actually could do with!)

Nige

 

[Chris]

Turbo

From what I've seen and been told in the past relating to this idea:
The ancillaries on the coupe engine are all in the wrong places including the exhaust manifold and turbo.Though you could probably overcome this by using a mixture of marea 155 parts and aftermarket bits.The suspension and steering on the 20V is different from the lesser models due to the extra size of the engine, so you'd have to fit this also along with brakes etc. The best and I think cheapest solution would be to cut your losses, buy a cheap HGT or Marea 155 and get in touch with Mariani Tuning in Italy who can supply everything you need to turbocharge this motor by mail order for around £2.5k. It is a major engine rebuild tho' after that. New hardened rods, lower compression pistons, cams etc.(parts included in price).
The other option: Import a brazilian Marea Turbo, but be aware that they don't come in the same stage of tune as the coupe having only around 190 horses.
I've just bought an old weekend 1.6 to use every day and am considering getting the bits from italy to do my 155 altough it seems a bit silly doin a rebuild on an engine thats only done 20k.
Good luck, Its a lot of work whatever you do

 

[redchili]

It can be done

Check out this months Max Power, they have a section on transplanting engines and with contacts of who can do it, one of the transplants IS a Fiat Coupe engine into a Bravo!

 

[Paul]

Re: It can be done

If you could do it, you'd have to do it in an HGT shell though - you couldn't do it in your 1.6. The HGT has a longer front end than the ordinary cooking models to incorporate the 20v engine.

 

[evo~paul]

Expensive

Just looked at the Max Power mag, very expensive option £3000.

As for the longer nose on the HGT nothing is mentioned in the mag.

Also you will need to make the suspension stiffer because of extra weight gain and upgrade the brakes for the extra power gain

 

[evo~paul]

Also

The bravo with turbo is for sale in Max Power.

A bit pricey though for an R reg, he wants £9000 but it looks like a lot of work has been done on it

 

[Steve L]

Thanks Lads

Thanks a lot for all the opinions, i just recieved an email of avanti motorsport telling me to ring Frank (i may do that) ill let you know how i get on.
As for the HGT being a bigger car, the reason i dont want one now is to fit a coupe turbo into a HGT would cost the same ish (presumably) as in any Bravo but i would only be gaining from 147BHP to 220 as apposed to 100 to 220 which would be worth the price of the car (for me anyway)
As for brakes and suspension im not bothered about them because i want to get uprated ones anyway reguardless of wether i get the engine dropped in or not so i would count that as an extra cost that comes with the engine rather than just making the other elements of the car better.

By the way, any advice on suspension or brakes? I was thinking Koni for suspension and Black diamond for the discs, but id rather get opinions first, people who've been there and done it know best!

 

[Steve L]

A Small Amendment

I was just looking through parkers price guide at the coupe and the 20v turbo is just the HGT with a turbo, i thought it was the same engine but further tuned then with a turbo put on but apparently there pushing 73BHP out of a standard turbo which i though was a bit much, funny isnt it. I may as well get a HGT and turbo it, now im really stuck!

 

[Nigel]

Lax Power

I think some of the previous threads said it all. You are going to end up with the type of car that appears in Lax Power - the bible for Johnny-no-stars McDonalds servers and prepubescent kids that cant even put a baseball cap on the right way round!

For the money you are going to spend, get a decent car to start with then go get a club racing license then drive really fast.

Don't buy Lax Power, look further than the Beano stand and buy Auto Italia and people won't laugh at you!

No I am not an old git (no - honest!) but I did used to work for Link House Magazines I have seen and laughed (so do the editors!) at 99% of cars that end up in these mags.

Nige

Thats me shot again!

 

[evo~paul]

Nigel...Nigel...Nigel

Your definately hitting the right buttons to wind people up aren't you !

What's wrong if someone wants to spend £3000 on an upgrade to there car. If they've got the money and they want to make something there's and personalize to their own taste.

It may not be liked by anyone else, but at least they can say that its there's and they have something that no one else has got.

 

[JohnB]

Re: Nigel...Nigel...Nigel

Nigel.....It looks to me like you simply love seeing questions like this on the forum so you can go do your Jeremy Clarkson impression. I don' think I've ever read a positive comment from you...no you can't put this,that or the other on your car it will look silly....no you can't get it painted blue with a silver dragon on the side...no you can't put a big engine in a Bravo.....CRIST give us a break.....these guys push want advise not your personal opinion about cars.

 

[Nigel Nigel Nigel]

YUP

You get wound up by my comments and I get wound up by w******s who look in Lax Power and see a realy **** car that has shed loads spent on it and then it looks like a **** car that has loads of money spent on it.

I am not just giving opinion I am giving fact. There are soooo many good cars out there for the kind of money that is looking to be spent here and I try and respond to make the person think - hell for my car plus £1234 I could have a car that is BETTER yes BETTER than I was thinking of!

Lets just think about my last car, A£24,500 Alfa 156 V6 2.5 SP3. I could have dropped a 2.0 litre engine in a Bravo put a huge rear wing on and of course one of those natty DTM tail pipes, Turbo's, Nitro'd and added an elastic band and managed 0-60 in the same time as the Alfa, SO WHATS THE POINT. The Alfa has full momo leather, climate control, handling to match, excellent braking AND IT LOOKS THE BUISNESS not like a shopping trolley that has been the subject of too many play station gamers.

That is my point - not an opinion of what it actually looks like or goes like. My preference for what its worth now is Wolf in sheeps clothing. My idea of a mod is to take the HGT badge of the back and swap it with my 1.4sx badge...now thats amusing to watch people expression. A sheep in wolfs clothing is just an embarrassment.

Cheers

Nige

 

[evo~paul]

Nigely Nigel....Nigely Nigel

Perhaps Nige, not everyone can afford a £24000 car immediately, and would rather buy a £12000 car and customise it to your own needs and probably still come in cheaper than a £24000 car !!

Perhaps you should respect peoples reasons for doing this, then people may well respect any b£$*£*$cks that comes out of your mouth !!

 

[Nigel]

Evo Paul

You read Lax Power don't you? You must do because I put some long words in that you didn't understand. Get a grown up to read it to you.

To give you a clue - the amount of money has nothing to do with it - it could be £240 or £240,000, it was an example.

 

[Barakka]

Nigel

Nigel,
I see your point, I really do.. I have a 1.6SX and my only plans for it are alloys (15"), induction kit, exhaust, and perhaps shorter springs. But this is no more than I would do on any bog standard model car...

Thing is if someone wants to customise their car, then that's up to them, usually it's to increase performance and aesthetic appeal. Now I know you probably think that it makes the car look sh*t, but if we all liked the same looks in cars there would only be one car and no point in making different ones. To you (and me) heavily modded cars look pants, but to the enthusiast driving the car an un-modded standard model looks just as pants, "one of the sheep".

As for your point on getting a better car for the extra money you would spend, I agree and I would do that myself. The mods I listed above are all I would do to my standard car, if I feel I want/need more from the car then i'll look for a new bigger/better car.

However, I can see why people do it and they do make a better car in the end. The starter of this post was talking about upgrading the entire car (engine, brakes, suspension, bodywork). Now this may well, all in all, cost more than buying a V6 Alfa, but it will still be a Bravo although it will look different and the performance, braking, handling will be a considerable imrpovement over the standard HGT. So it will be better than the Best Production Bravo which is a goal I cannot argue with, ie trying to improve on the best which is available in the field.

 

[Nigel]

Thank you!

That was the point I made when I first responded to the original question, I think I was one of the first to respond. I don't have anything against modded cars nor the people that drive them but I do try and get them to view things a bit further forward just to give them a bit of cred and save them a bit of money.

I wasn't after upsetting anyone, I did bit a Paul's remarks which I shouldn't have done but I had just come off the phone from arguing with bloody Fiat again over my HGT and the bullshit they were giving me this time!

SORRY PAUL, my response was harsh!

Nigel

 

[evo~paul]

Nigel

Nige, no offense taken.

You are correct I do read Max Power to give the correct title.

As for getting pissed of with me because you just got of the phone to Fiat, i completely understand.

It looks like both our points are correct.

 

[JohnB]

Re: Nigel

You make a good point Nigel...but be honest if everybody in your street suddenly went out and bought a £24,500 Alfa 156 V6 2.5 SP3 wouldn't you be even the tiniest bit tempered to put a big mad tailgate spoiler on the back, just to stand out....or even "a big f@*k off exhaust".....or god in heaven forbid, tweek the engine slightly so it goes that little bit quicker then the guy next door. Modifying cars is about starting with something mundane and ordinary and turning it into something individual and unique, and it's going to be something different for everyone. That's what makes it great........anyway that's me done on the subject. We'll have to meet for a pint sometime to discuss in more detail if you can drag yourself out of your rocking chair..

take care.

 

[alan wheeldon]

steve...

i too have a 1.6 bravo and have looked into fitting the 2.0 turbo.
i got quotes for about 4 grand and thought sod it, ill just buy a faster car to start with.