Technical A/C Propellant

[Most Easterly Pandas]

What propellant does the Stilo's A/C system use? Is it R134a?

Also whats the general concensus of DIY re-charge systems?

I've finally had to buy the incar AC bomb cleaner system things, as in the last few days on start up the cars AC smells like rats ****, nitrally :yuck:

Have been thinking of getting AC recharged also, but the price of £50 is putting me off as the AC system is still functioning well enough, but just isn't as fast to respond as the system in dad's new Panda.

Seen a few DIY kits online and they use the R134a propellant, so just want to check its the right sort, and that DIY recharges aren't to bad.

Jon.

 

[dave]

R134a sounds right, i think thats what was used for mrs daves punto, but that was by a man that fixed building aircon for a living and he did it for free.

 

[Andymacselespeed]

Diy recharge cans are fine, but only if the system is in really good condition first. When pros do a recharge they vacuum out the whole system, then add new refrigerant. Home kits just put more in. So if there's a leak and air or water has got on they won't help. If just a top up is needed they're fine!

 

[Davren]

If just a top up is needed they're fine!

If a top up is needed, then there must be a leak somewhere.

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

Diy recharge cans are fine, but only if the system is in really good condition first. When pros do a recharge they vacuum out the whole system, then add new refrigerant. Home kits just put more in. So if there's a leak and air or water has got on they won't help. If just a top up is needed they're fine!

So I'm assuming mine just needs a top-up then, as its fully funtioning, just doesn't seem to have the clout as Dad's recently re-gased Panda does (its was re-gassed after having a front end re-build, so £50 to get climate working didn't seem a bad price, but seems steep if you've already got a functioning system like me).

If a top up is needed, then there must be a leak somewhere.

Don't they need topping up every few years or so then

 

[Morty Mort]

Don't they need topping up every few years or so then

The system should be 100% "leak-free", but as the compressor shuts down when temp is 3 C° or so, the o-rings might dry out making some gas escape. My compressor shuts down automatically pretty much during winter. I do leave it "on" though.

 

[A3jeroen]

It's just like a tire loosing some pressure. An average loss of 10% per year is considered normal. Using AC every week (even in winter) prevents bigger losses.

gr J

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

The system should be 100% "leak-free", but as the compressor shuts down when temp is 3 C° or so, the o-rings might dry out making some gas escape. My compressor shuts down automatically pretty much during winter. I do leave it "on" though.

Mine doesn't seem to in winter, although I don't have auto climate. So I do it manually and turn off when Ice warning is on dash which comes in at about <3C

It's just like a tire loosing some pressure. An average loss of 10% per year is considered normal. Using AC every week (even in winter) prevents bigger losses.

gr J

Ta, mine's on 24/7 even in the winter, so should be working at its best then?

 

[Deckchair5]

My A/Cs seem to need topping up every summer on all the cars and i service it along with the cabin filter every summer and sometimes winter too. The amount of air that goes through the cabin filter is huge so it gets well clogged and just taking it out and beating it regularly does the world of good as does spraying some disinfectant in there too

Regarding leaks, well unless you have a huge hole or a broken pipe it's worth noting that the aircon system will only leak until the pressure inside equals the atmospheric pressure outside, so it won't necessarily be contaminated or full of air in the system just because there's a loss of positive pressure

If you overpressurise the system the linear pressure switch will sense it and put the rad fan on full blast to cool the coolant down. Underpressurise and the linear switch will simply not allow the compressor to start

It's worth noting what's going on inside the ventilator distribution box too


All air goes through the cabin filter and through the air con evaporator first, then on full cold here, the air is sent wherever you have selected


With heat selected then the hot/cold blend flap opens to divert air over the heater matrix

Outside air is going through the cabin filter and over the aircon evaporator all the time the fan is on so it's important not to leave the cabin filter out otherwise it's the evaporator that gets clogged instead of the filter and it will make the whole system smell bad in a short time

 

[Peter Pick-Up]

It is still R134A, but in 2012 it's going to be replaced by some other gas.
I bought a few cans with R134A, just to be sure I have enough for the next years to come.
The same happened with Freon R12, the A/C gas from the past ( until 1992 in fact), one day you could buy it everywhere, the next day it was all gone....!!
I have a Pontiac with the A/C running on R12, luckily I found some kilo's R12 on Ebay lately, so my Bird will be cool for the next years!
Have your A/C serviced every two-three years by a professional, to keep it working in good order.
Don't wait until it cuts out ( by the low pressure switch), because the gas transports the essential oil through the compressor, less gas means less oil.....!!!
For more info: www.autoacforum.com

 

[RobConn]

just for reference, R134a (Tetrafluoroethane) is the only refrigerant currently in automotive use. The older R12 (Dichlorodifluoromethane) was banned from 1994/95 because of the environmental impact, but most r12 systems can be modified to run R134a or unmodified running R409a (but this is used primarily in industrial applications).

also, the stocks of the DIY cans may start to dwindle, as the DTi have enforced a ban of non-refillable containers for aircon refrigerants manufactured after 2007.

rob

 

[Peter Pick-Up]

The price of R134A is going up lately,because most supplies go to.....India, for some reason.
Gas factory's are producing less R134A because of the ban in 2012....!

 

[Peter Pick-Up]

The older R12 (Dichlorodifluoromethane) was banned from 1994/95 because of the environmental impact, but most r12 systems can be modified to run R134a .

rob

Sure, but costs are very high, as the oil in R12 and R134A don't mix, the whole system has to be cleaned thoroughly, and all seals in the system have to be replaced by R134A compatible ones...
And after all, a R12 designed system doesn't cool that well with R134A.....!!

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

It is still R134A, but in 2012 it's going to be replaced by some other gas.

Why?

 

[Peter Pick-Up]

R134A isn't very environment friendly....

 

[Blue hlx]

sadly I have to report that my wife had our recently purchased Stilo thru Kwik Fit for system clean and re-gas...

two weeks later ...didley squat as the Mericans say...so a leak somewhere or what :yuck:

The car may have had aircon not working for a couple of years, I think that best to work on that premise?

So any obvious places I should look, all help readily accepted:worship:

 

[sixpotman]

https://www.fiatforum.com/stilo/66348-air-con.html

Really difficult to find a slight leak could be the
pipe, the core valves leaking, condensor, or the
compressor seals.

Only way to find the leak is leak test with oxygen free
nitrogen and dye, or if there's still gas in the system a
sniffer. Local aircon specialist required but get a price
for a leak test and then take it from there. I'm in the
process of trying to find my leaks.

John

 

[RobConn]

hmm... a feeling of de-ja-vu here then... phasing out R134a the environmentally friendly rplacement for R12.... agh, make your mind up EU.

 

[Morty Mort]

make your mind up EU.

It's best to just stay out of it.

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

R134A isn't very environment friendly....

hmm... a feeling of de-ja-vu here then... phasing out R134a the environmentally friendly rplacement for R12.... agh, make your mind up EU.

Yeah, stupid really tbh.