Technical 59 plate 500 - rusty suspension top mounts

[c145hoo]

Is it possible to undo the top nut and replace the metal cup (heavily rusted) although the bushes etc underneath are all fine, without having to dismantle the whole of the suspension or having to compress the suspension spring?

Some pics seem to show a nut on top off and also underneath the metal cup - which if correct would appear to allow the top nut to be removed without too much difficulty or issues (assuming it isn't rusted to the suspension damper!!) and the cup can be replaced.

I assume the part (metal cup) is available as a separate part - been suggested that this is part '3w015'.
Could try and de-rust the existing ones, but a bit too far gone, so replacement is a better option assuming it is not a strip down...

Views greatly appreciated

 

[jrkitching]

Is it possible to undo the top nut and replace the metal cup (heavily rusted) although the bushes etc underneath are all fine, without having to dismantle the whole of the suspension or having to compress the suspension spring?

Yes, provided you can undo the nut. Give it a good soaking overnight in WD40 or something like this. In the absence of weapons grade impact air tools, you'll need a good offset ring spanner for the nut, and a sturdy hex key or socket to hold the centre part of the strut rigidly in place whilst you turn the nut (otherwise the whole assembly will rotate and you'll get nowhere fast). If it's been in place for more than a month or two, don't expect it to give up easily.

From memory, the metal cup & rubber bump stop are a bonded assembly which is replaced as a unit. Readily available and not expensive.

Apply a liberal coating of a suitable protective substance to the nut when replacing, and consider either buying covers for the bump stops (the later cars should have them as standard), or fabricating an alternative using an empty squash bottle & a pair of scissors (been there, done that!) If you do this in the first few weeks after purchasing a new car, it's child's play, but on a car that's several years old, it may be considerably more awkward and frustrating. Be careful not to damage the thread, or you'll need to replace both front strut/shock absorber assemblies. If you can't undo the nut without risking damaging the strut, consider leaving the job until the front shocks need replacing (which they might well anyway on a car that's more than 3-4 yrs old), and splitting or grinding the nut off - in this case, you can use any means at your disposal; you won't need to worry about damaging the nut or strut thread since you'll be replacing these.

The metal & rubber cup is just a bump stop to prevent the suspension falling out if the front wheels are a long way off the ground, and doesn't carry any load once the weight of the car is on its wheels; you won't make things any worse by leaving it and this is one situation where the old adage "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" could usefully be applied.

 

[TrevC]

If you can't shift it, it may be worth attacking with wire brush/kurust/waxoyl. I've waxoyled mine from new and they seem corrosion free.

 

[Mick F]

If you can't shift it, it may be worth attacking with wire brush/kurust/waxoyl. I've waxoyled mine from new and they seem corrosion free.

That is my plan too.

RH seems to be permanently sitting in water, LH less so.

Occurs to me that some sort of plastic cover could be made DIY. I must measure them up and see what I can do. I have read on here about using a disposable shower cap!

Thanks,
Mick.

 

[c145hoo]

Thanks JRKitching....you say "From memory, the metal cup & rubber bump stop are a bonded assembly which is replaced as a unit. Readily available and not expensive." I assume this 'unit' is replaceable from the top and doesn't require anything more than getting the top nut off of the damper spindle? Any idea on the torque wrench settings when retightening?

 

[varesecrazy]

That is my plan too.

RH seems to be permanently sitting in water, LH less so.

Occurs to me that some sort of plastic cover could be made DIY. I must measure them up and see what I can do. I have read on here about using a disposable shower cap!

Thanks,
Mick.

I seem to recall the ARE / WERE covers form FIAT..??

old posts on here should confirm..,
Charlie

 

[Mick F]

Number 13 is the one to have.
Dunno if they are available separately for earlier cars that don't have them as standard.

 

[frupi]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genuine-F...hash=item416e8bafb7:m:mRDnaIxeU-R48z6JWlV8h-A

 

[Mick F]

Thanks.
Sounds a good deal.

What about people who can't undo the nut and who CAN clean the mounts up and Kurust them, and then only want the plastic caps to protect them?

I wonder if they are available separately?

Thanks,
Mick.

 

[jrkitching]

Thanks.
Sounds a good deal.

What about people who can't undo the nut and who CAN clean the mounts up and Kurust them, and then only want the plastic caps to protect them?

I wonder if they are available separately?

Thanks,
Mick.

Yes, I believe they can be ordered from a Fiat dealer if you can't find any online.

However, it's cheaper (as in free) to just make your own .

 

[Mick F]

............. however, where is the nearest Sainsbury's?

 

[frupi]

I've got a couple of Cinquecento top mount rubber covers which fit and which I had fitted to the top mounts of our first 1.2 POP. I took 'em off before I got rid of the car and they're still sat in a box in my garage.

And yes, just the top mount covers are available:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fiat-500-...048741?hash=item4d38f4cb65:g:~1oAAOSwQTVWCpv1

 

[jrkitching]

Thanks JRKitching....you say "From memory, the metal cup & rubber bump stop are a bonded assembly which is replaced as a unit. Readily available and not expensive." I assume this 'unit' is replaceable from the top and doesn't require anything more than getting the top nut off of the damper spindle? Any idea on the torque wrench settings when retightening?

Correct - though if they're well rusty, just doing that will be quite enough hard work, thank you very much!

You'll struggle to improvise a torque wrench when refitting since you'll need to firmly hold the centre part of the strut with a hex key (making it impossible to use a standard socket), or the whole thing will just rotate inside the shock absorber tube. Fortunately it's not a particularly critical fastening and common mechanical sense will suffice - just tighten normally with an average-sized ring spanner.

Fiat actually make a special tool so you can use a torque wrench if you really want to, though I'd be surprised if anyone does this in practice, even in franchised dealerships. See the picture below (click to enlarge) for the tool and associated torque settings.

Remember if you do grease it (and you should if you ever want to undo it easily again) to use only about 2/3 of the published dry torque settings, or you'll overtighten it.

 

[c145hoo]

JRKitching - many thanks for your help, advice and suggestions - much appreciated

 

[Joe Dolce]

I've got a couple of Cinquecento top mount rubber covers which fit and which I had fitted to the top mounts of our first 1.2 POP. I took 'em off before I got rid of the car and they're still sat in a box in my garage.

And yes, just the top mount covers are available:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fiat-500-...048741?hash=item4d38f4cb65:g:~1oAAOSwQTVWCpv1

Ordered. Thanks

 

[Mick F]

I've got a couple of Cinquecento top mount rubber covers which fit and which I had fitted to the top mounts of our first 1.2 POP. I took 'em off before I got rid of the car and they're still sat in a box in my garage.

And yes, just the top mount covers are available:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fiat-500-...048741?hash=item4d38f4cb65:g:~1oAAOSwQTVWCpv1

Just before I order a pair, I happened to look further down the page and saw that Ford KA covers are cheaper.

Are they the same?
If so, I'll buy those!
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Shape...3e572d3&pid=100005&rk=3&rkt=6&sd=331668048741

Thanks,
Mick.

 

[Mick F]

PS:
I found these.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genuine-F...36415e9&pid=100005&rk=1&rkt=6&sd=331668048735

Trouble is, there's only one.

 

[frupi]

Yes, the Ford KA and 500 top mount caps are the same and I'd already seen the Ford ones were cheaper if bought singly. I already did the hard work for you lol and that is why I posted the ones sold as a pair

The reason why I removed the Cincequento rubber caps I put on our old 1.2 POP, was because I bought a genuien pair of Fiat plastic caps. I'd previously tried jrkitching's plastic bottle end solution, but they just rattled around and I got fed up of hearing them so I bought the proper bits of kit for the job. They're hardly expensive

 

[jrkitching]

PS:
I found these.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genuine-Fiat-500-Abarth-front-supsension-mounting-mount-cap-51938656-QTY-1/331668048744?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D33843%26meid%3Da9aacd678974489caa6b4af1436415e9%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D331668048735

Trouble is, there's only one.

er, that listing is showing there's 10 available (but you do need to order two) .

I'd previously tried jrkitching's plastic bottle end solution, but they just rattled around and I got fed up of hearing them so I bought the proper bits of kit for the job. They're hardly expensive

When I first fitted these, the proper bits of kit for the job hadn't been invented yet!

Amazingly, my improvised ones are still working just fine five years on - and they don't rattle. It's a matter of finding the right bottle for the job, and some careful cutting.

But if I were doing this again today, I'd just buy the proper bits.

 

[Mick F]

I spent a happy couple of hours this morning trying out various Heath Robinson ideas. I tried a few food containers, even a cleaned Pot Noodle pot! I considered a tennis ball cut in half, but sadly they're not wide enough.

The main issue is that although the top cap is a flat 80mm circular disc, the strut pokes up through, so the cover needs to be conical. If the whole thing was flat, a circular cut-out of plastic would suffice with a bit of glue.

Secondary issue is that in order to get at them well, the plastic scuttle needs to be removed.

Anyway, I've succumbed to common sense and ordered a pair from ebay.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/Fiat...0068&clkid=1967175177148567212&_qi=RTM2063723
Madness not to!

Regards to all,
Mick.