Technical 59 plate 500 - rusty suspension top mounts

[jrkitching]

Secondary issue is that in order to get at them well, the plastic scuttle needs to be removed.

Yes, you need to remove the wipers & scuttle to have any hope of undoing the nuts. If you're just greasing and fitting the covers, this can be done with the scuttle in place.

You need to remove the wipers before removing the scuttle (this should be obvious). To remove the wiper covers, put your fingers behind them and pull straight out towards you - don't let them twist or you'll break the fitting clip. The wiper nuts will then be easily accessible.

The scuttle is held in place by some rather nasty black plastic screws & plugs which are good only for one-time use. If you do try to reuse them, the scuttle will be loose & will rattle . I don't know if you can buy the screws & plugs separately, but you'd do better in any case to just replace them with suitable small screws, nuts & washers - I did mine with some black plastic coated ones I happened to have lying around.

 

[BigKev]

Just a quick one from me...

I fitted the genuine Fiat plastic top covers (£6 from e-bay) and the rain water still entered the strut-top. It seems to seep in regardless (capillary action?) and the worst thing then is that it doesn't evaporate out again, so the problem may be exacerbated.

I discarded them and reverted to lashings of grease, reapplied periodically.

Kev.

 

[Mercky]

Mine came with the caps and likewise I added a good dollop of grease but also a smear of grease on the bottom of the cap to get a better seal - seems to do the trick

 

[Mick F]

Thanks for the info folks!
I'll be Waxoyl-ing, greasing, and capping mine.

I'm under no illusions about this. "Shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted" springs to mind, so I wonder HOW and WHY the rain water gets in.

Would it not be better to stop the rain entering in the first place?
The Fiat500 is not the only car out there with these struts, and they all don't suffer like a 500 does. Maybe the Ford Ka does too?

Ours are fine at the moment. RH one is rustier and water-logged than the LH, and the LH one seems almost brand new (and dry) in comparison. I wonder why one is wet and the other is dry?

Puzzled about this,
Mick.

 

[Mick F]

Just a quick one from me...

I fitted the genuine Fiat plastic top covers (£6 from e-bay) and the rain water still entered the strut-top. It seems to seep in regardless (capillary action?) and the worst thing then is that it doesn't evaporate out again, so the problem may be exacerbated.

I discarded them and reverted to lashings of grease, reapplied periodically.

Kev.

Mine arrived yesterday, and I am rather disappointed with them. Genuine Fiat items, and if I'd been successful with my Heath Robinson ideas, they would have been superior to these.

JR's idea is superior too, and I reckon he should leave them as they are and not bother with the Fiat offering.
https://www.fiatforum.com/500/254730-front-strut-top-mountings.html?p=2630419

The problem, as I see it, is that they don't fit OVER the strut, but just sit on top. The underside clips onto the strut shaft and the "land" around the rim rests on top of the steel ring.

No wonder the rain still goes in. It must leak along the horizontal flat bit.

My idea when I fit them, is to use some silicon sealant. It'll be sealed properly but soft enough to remove if/when I need to get at the strut.

Regards,
Mick.

 

[Mick F]

Just fitted them.

Both struts were soaking wet, the RH one far worse and going rusty. 2011 500TA with 19,500miles on the clock.

I used a cloth to soak up the water, then a heat gun (set on medium heat) to dry the struts. You have to be careful of course, because there's rather a lot of plastic around! Gently gently did it, and by going back and forth between them, I got them warm but not hot, and the dampness evaporated. Ten minute job.

Next, I tried out the covers. They are a firm push fit, and initially I thought they didn't fit all the way down, but when pushing really hard, I got another click. The inside part fits tightly onto the screw threads, so you have to make sure you give then a good hard push.

Rather than use the silicon sealant idea, I lavished the struts with general purpose grease including the rubber surround rings. I've noted the date and the mileage, and I'll lift them off in a month/500miles or whatever, and see how they're getting on. If they're soaking wet again, I'll get the sealant gun out.

The question still remains though. Where is this water getting in?
Looks to me as though it's dripping off the plastic scuttle. The two sides are different, with the LH side having the vent and the RH side being plain. Either way, the RH side was FAR wetter (and rustier) than the LH side.

I wonder if some strategically placed polythene sheeting would shelter them and let the water run off out of harm's way?

Regards,
Mick.

 

[Mick F]

Two weeks later and 225miles done, and the RH mount is soaking wet. I didn't bother looking at the LH side.

If anyone is thinking of buying these covers, it's a waste of money. Good job they are cheap to buy.

If and when the nice weather comes, I'll take them both off, clean off all the grease and seal them with bathroom sealant and see if that works. Somehow I doubt it.

Still asking the question:
Where is the water coming in from?

Also, no matter how it's coming in, can these mounts be drilled so the water runs out? Basically, if you can't stop the water, at least you can let it drain away naturally.

Regards,
Mick.

 

[Craikeybaby]

The top mounts are really rusty on my wife's 500, so I'm guessing they aren't going to be easy to undo. It also looks like it will need new front shock absorbers sooner rather than later, as they are weeping oil, so I'm guessing it will be easier to do both at the same time.

 

[jrkitching]

The top mounts are really rusty on my wife's 500, so I'm guessing they aren't going to be easy to undo. It also looks like it will need new front shock absorbers sooner rather than later, as they are weeping oil, so I'm guessing it will be easier to do both at the same time.

Shock absorbers should always be replaced as a pair.

If you're replacing the top mounts as well, you can just cut or split off the nuts using whatever means you have at your disposal.

 

[Craikeybaby]

I probably should have been clearer, by both I meant shock absorbers and top mounts. Both shock absorbers will be replaced.

 

[jrkitching]

I probably should have been clearer, by both I meant shock absorbers and top mounts. Both shock absorbers will be replaced.

Fair enough.

Strictly speaking, the top mounts are the rubber mountings at the top of the strut, under the wheelarch; the rusty bits you can see when opening the bonnet are just the bumpstops. Look closely and you'll likely see a small gap between the bumpstops & the bodywork with the weight of the car on its wheels - this is normal.

And yes, those rubber underwing topmounts will likely be worn, too, so I'd replace them when you do the shocks to save yourself another job later (it's an MOT fail if they're noticeably worn). Be aware they need to be fitted the correct way round, or you'll throw out the front geometry; even franchised dealers have been known to have messed this up.

While you're down there, check the droplinks for wear (it's common enough & will cause the car to rattle every time you go over a bump); again, a cheap and easy fix.

Whether you replace the bumpstops is up to you; the corrosion, whilst unattractive, is likely only cosmetic. They're cheap enough to replace, though - and doing so means you can hack at them during removal in any way you see fit. You should get a new nut with the shock absorber.

eBay Link to some good value top mounts.

 

[coolbumble]

Hi
Same problem I have just bought a Fiat 500 sport 2010. 17000 miles only and have the same issue rusty suspension top mounts, which was shown as an advisory on the Feb 2016 MOT Have doused them in WD40 and covered with kitchen foil to stop further ingress of water. I understand the possible difficulty in undoing these to replace them. Can someone advise me if the caps are separate to the rubber mount or bonded?
Many thanks for any advice
Regards
Ian

 

[John202020]

You can get plastic covers on Ebay, but you need to really seal round the edge or you just keep in any water that creeps in. You know aluminium and the steel top cap react together aluminium and steel should never be in contact with each other

 

[coolbumble]

You can get plastic covers on Ebay, but you need to really seal round the edge or you just keep in any water that creeps in. You know aluminium and the steel top cap react together aluminium and steel should never be in contact with each other

Many thanks for that point taken
Regards
Ian

 

[Happybubbas]

I'm in the process of replacing front and rear shocks. I've done the rear, they were really easy. However the fronts are another matter! As the nuts at the top are so rusted. They've been sprayed with wd40 and heated, but no luck. Anyway after a couple of days of searching the Internet, I have found the part at the top of the mount (the bit where the water always collects) on SG Petch parts site. They call it a strut top washer for £10.74 plus vat. I'm going to order 2 of these along with front bump stops. I've already ordered top mount struts as well. Are there any other part apart from top mount struts, strut top washer or bump stops that I should be replacing whilst the job is being done to fit the new front shocks? Thanks

 

[frupi]

I've replaced the entire front struts on my 9-3 before and that's a really easy job for a competent home mechanic, so I know what parts constitute the make up of the struts on that vehicle. You ask which other parts you might replace at the same time? well if there are top mount bearings, I would replace those as a matter of course and also, you might want to replace the coil springs with brand new ones, especially if you've got a fair few miles on the originals. It doesn't take much for a coil spring to weaken and usually snap at the pigtail end once rust has taken hold. Have a look too at the rubber bellows on the struts, if they are perished/holed, replace them. Also, drop links, if they haven't been replaced before, change them out. They aren't particularly expensive.

Be sure once you've done the strut mounts/drop links, that you take the car for a wheel alignment. I've swapped out all of the shocks/coil springs/drop links on my 9-3. I took it for a Hunter laser wheel alignment and discovered that all my toe angles were off. Cost me £70 to have the whole set up realigned, but well worth doing if you don't want tyres scrubbing out.

 

[Happybubbas]

Thanks Frupi. I think the strut mounts I've orders have the bearings included. I've ordered febi Bilstein 28221. I'll check the condition of the springs aswell, hopefully they're OK, as the car has done 30,000 miles.

 

[John202020]

I can see this type of job for me in the future, having worked out the strange noise over speed humps is the(blasted) lower control arm i noticed the shockers are quite rusty for the age of the car, so, lets assume the top nut is rusted fast after years of water, how do you remove it/the strut assembly?
Would removing the bonnet help with access?

What pre-planned measures would people suggest given we will be keeping the car for as long as possible,can't afford to replace it(59 plate bought in Oct)
The indie dealer we got it from replaced the discs sump and battery FOC which was nice, the front discs were REALLY bad(like the car had stood six months unused), the rear drums make a grating noise but otherwise work, would it pay to have a look as I suspect they're rusted too, makes me think the car may have sat in water for a while though not over the floor pan height?

 

[Happybubbas]

You need to remove the windscreen wiper scuttle, this will give better access to the top mounts. If you google "remove shock absorbers from fiat 500" and select videos, there's a video with a white abrarth by an American who replaces rear and front shocks. I'm going to waxoyl mine after to preserve them, I've tried the covers but they're rubbish.

 

[Mick F]

I never got round to Waxoyling mine, but since the drier weather is here, the problem isn't so bad.

Meanwhile, thinking about JR's idea of using cut-off drinks bottles, I've been considering all sorts of things. Recently, we had a couple of pots cottage cheese from Lidl's and it struck me that (when empty and clean) they would fit.

Yes they do!
You have to squeeze them past the plastic scuttle and squeeze them over the struts, but because they are very flexible, this is easy.

Best wishes,
Mick.