General 4x4 drive shaft making damn noise

[Jaff_Fox]

So I've reached phase two of "whats making that knocking noise?" after episode one.. 'replace suspension bushes'. And I've finally found out whats doing it!!

Its the driveshaft for the 4x4 as i suspected... I figured this as the noise goes away if i turn on 4x4 mode so tonight i unbolted the far end of the drive shaft and cable tied it up against the fuel tank so it wouldn't scrape on the road and took it for a drive and sure enough the noise was gone..

What causes the noise is the fact that theres a little play in the drive and when 4x4 is not on that play converts to a rattle/knocking noise over rough roads and bumps.

But I'm hopelessly stuck now does anyone have any suggestions on how i can fix this?.. From what i can see.. this problem should occur in any 4x4 panda yet i'm sure other owners would have mentioned if if their car made the noise as its quite annoying...

Small play in drive shaft diff which is normal of course..

Drive shaft disconnected and soon to be tied up next to the fuel tank for test run...

 

[Alan.D]

Not sure there should be play in that part Jaff as the shaft just after the UJ should do that. There is also an expanding section on the front part of the shaft but the gearbox section it bolts to is solid.

Does the UJ feel very stiff ? I'm wondering if it's caused problems with a bearing

 

[parsons2006]

If the bearing has gone, you would get plenty of annoying clinks / knocks / rattles call them what you will

How much can you move it side to side?

 

[Jaff_Fox]

Not sure there should be play in that part Jaff as the shaft just after the UJ should do that. There is also an expanding section on the front part of the shaft but the gearbox section it bolts to is solid.

Does the UJ feel very stiff ? I'm wondering if it's caused problems with a bearing

Damn I'm crap lol.. okay to contradict myself totally (i'm tired) The actual drive shaft has no play.. if i pull the 4x4 lever and try to move it its pretty solid the UJ points all seem good.. the part with the small amount of play and indeed the ultimate result of the rattle is the actual rear axel drive (photo 1).
I drained the oil and checked the bearings inside and they all seem solid and good. The play seems to occur somewhere between the actual read axel drive and the wheels.. I'm sure this is normal as i doubt you could get this totally solid but I don't know anything about these drive's...

Grr.. this is a tough one

 

[Alan.D]

Yep that's what I thought you meant but the pic shows as if there is side to side movement as well as the slight turning play which I believe is normal, the side to side isn't.

However......the propshaft will always turn with the back wheels whether the 4x4 lever is in the 2 or 4wd mode it just wont drive the prop in the 2wd mode. SO the propshaft and UJ may still be the problem.

I ask again is the UJ stiff to move? if it is it could be throwing the prop out, if not could be the propshaft bearings.

 

[dave]

any play in these bits?

 

[Jaff_Fox]

Yep that's what I thought you meant but the pic shows as if there is side to side movement as well as the slight turning play which I believe is normal, the side to side isn't.

However......the propshaft will always turn with the back wheels whether the 4x4 lever is in the 2 or 4wd mode it just wont drive the prop in the 2wd mode. SO the propshaft and UJ may still be the problem.

I ask again is the UJ stiff to move? if it is it could be throwing the prop out, if not could be the propshaft bearings.

Sorry for my ignorence Alan.. okay the pic is a poor example.. there is only turning play.. other than that its solid no side to side movement. I'd sure bet that was a smashed bearing if there was.

The actual UJ is not stiff and quite flexible, there is no play in it. I have also shaken the propshaft to see if i can hear any noise but there isn't any. As for propshaft bearings I'm not sure how to check those so it might be them..

But all in all speaking as someone with zero experience with these it seems to look good. My theory on the rattling is simple that when 4x4 is not on the propshaft has slight turning play causing knocking. When 4x4 is on.. becasue the machanism 'winds up' there will be no turning play in the shaft at all thus no noise...

It may make things more complicated to mention, that on the start of my journey's in the car there is no knocking noise but it rapidly starts after a few minutes driving..

 

[Jaff_Fox]

any play in these bits?
View attachment 14795

nope, they seem quite sound

 

[Alan.D]

Possibly still the diff or prop then Jaff but too many variables still to pin point it. I do have a spare prop if you wish to try it but it's not for sale unfortuneately as the UJ parts were reconned and it's a spare I don't wish to pass on permanantly. I can also take some pics if you wish but will be after the NI trip as it's in the darkest part of the garage.

 

[Jaff_Fox]

If I did.. I would only need to borrow it for about 15 minutes anyway lol, if it cured the problem I would try and get hold of another myself. This is one of those annoying things that just drives me crazy and I have to fix it now i started :/
I don't like being a pain in the arse but perhaps if i don't manage to cure it i would be able to pop up some time for a few hours to give it a try?...

In any case thanks for all your help once again..

 

[Alan.D]

Oh! just to add I got my new shed so the garage is due for a clean out soon after the foot is fully healed (pardon the pun) may even be able to fit the panda in this winter time

 

[Alan.D]

If I did.. I would only need to borrow it for about 15 minutes anyway lol, if it cured the problem I would try and get hold of another myself. This is one of those annoying things that just drives me crazy and I have to fix it now i started :/
I don't like being a pain in the arse but perhaps if i don't manage to cure it i would be able to pop up some time for a few hours to give it a try?...

In any case thanks for all your help once again..

No problem at all.

 

[Jaff_Fox]

Oh! just to add I got my new shed so the garage is due for a clean out soon after the foot is fully healed (pardon the pun) may even be able to fit the panda in this winter time

Thats a mighty fine workshop you got there Alan
Ohh she was knocking mighty fine again this morning on the way to work.. Let us know when you have a spare few hours and I'll pop up and 'peck your head' for a bit

 

[Alan.D]

Well I think a date is being set to go and sort/change the engine on the 4x4 on the 12th of June and will be in the Manchester area so if you want to pop along & change the prop over it'll save some time & milage.

 

[Jaff_Fox]

Well I think a date is being set to go and sort/change the engine on the 4x4 on the 12th of June and will be in the Manchester area so if you want to pop along & change the prop over it'll save some time & milage.

12th.. bahh a monday, I'll see if I can scive the day off work But with the amount of annoyance & dare i say it even distress this is causing me at the mo. A drive up your way one weekend wouldn't be an issue at all if thats alright?

I'm gonna pull the whole propshaft off and see how it runs over the next few days without it just to confirm its definatly that.. I hope it is or I'm gonna start losing hair and I'm quite sure i'm not old enough for that yet...

 

[Tony M]

12th.. bahh a monday, I'll see if I can scive the day off work But with the amount of annoyance & dare i say it even distress this is causing me at the mo.

We are probably going to be there long after you've finished work

 

[Jaff_Fox]

We are probably going to be there long after you've finished work

Ahh well that will be a winner then