General 2012 New Panda - all comments here please :)

[ivantate]

Not sure if VW are a good example as their latest release are midly facelifted previous models. The mk6 Golf they openly claimed was a cost reduced version of the mk5.


Fiat have let things slip a bit in europe, I think especially where Alfa is concerned, due to the focus on the US. Having said that it sounds like there is a bumper year going on over there with the Chrysler products.

Concerning the current Panda, remember plenty of parts for suspension and brakes have been in production for far longer than the current shape and perform perfectly well. There is only so much they can do with a 3.6m long box which strut front suspension and trailing arm rear. So why waste money on redeveloping the wheel? focus on NVH, interior finish and eco benefits.
The next structural change is more likely to be due to crash regs than styling.

Interestingly and I am not sure if it is marketing (i havent had chance to find someone who swapped from Fiat Auto in the office at the moment) is that the 500US platform is referenced. Now this is more than likely trying to differentiate it from the existing panda but there are some changes to consider: its 1.4multiair ready, there seems to have been changes to the front suspension, the rear beam will have the ARB welded in and it may get the larger fuel tank. Also there might be some structural changes to help with safety. Not just the box ticking NCAP type of things)

I will be very interested to see it in the skin and also to see how the twinair translates into the panda. When I went in a 500TA it was very good and characterful and seemed to suit the car.

Unfortunately the price point will be more important than the innovation. This where fiat have been clever and developed the engines as they can be spread over more platforms.

 

[Nitrogen]

oh-oh
aygo/c1/107 are all now under 100g/km starting from under £8K
kia and hyundai competitors are under 100g/km
The up! and it's sisters will have versions under 100g/km
the twinair panda will not be cheap.
FIAT are two tax classes higher with what they expect to be their volume seller the 1.2litre fire engine.

 

[Super Uwe]

oh-oh
aygo/c1/107 are all now under 100g/km starting from under £8K
kia and hyundai competitors are under 100g/km
The up! and it's sisters will have versions under 100g/km
the twinair panda will not be cheap.
FIAT are two tax classes higher with what they expect to be their volume seller the 1.2litre fire engine.

I understand your point here about price, but the Aygo/C1/107 simply isn't a competitor (in my opinion) to the Panda as it is too small and impractical. As for the Kia Picanto, here are the UK prices:

http://www.kia.co.uk/new-cars/range/compact-cars/new-picanto/pricing.aspx

And here are the Hyundai i10 prices:

http://www.hyundai-car.co.uk/newCars/i10/prices/

The Kia and Hyundai will always be very competitive with respect to standard equipment, but their prices are not so different to the Panda.

With respect to road tax, the 1.2 engine will cost £30 per year in the UK. It is not something that most people will be worrying about to be honest.

 

[Nitrogen]

From wikipedia with citation numbers:

The Greater London Urban Area is the second-largest in the EU with a population of 8,278,251,[26] while London's metropolitan area is the largest in the EU with an estimated total population of between 12 million[27] and 14 million.[28]

There's 8 million people straight away who will at the very least give a passing consideration to whether a car emits more or less than 100g/KM of CO2,

The game has moved on and the new Panda hasn't.
For those outside of a congestion zone a 120g/km 1.2 litre PANDA gives about 55mpg while 100g/km equates to over 65mpg and the competitor three cylinder engines are getting closer to their claimed economy rates than the twin cylinder does.

And then you get on to company car taxation. It will matter very much if a car comes in under 120, 115, 110 or 100g/km in the year 2012/2013.
The old model Panda at 113g/km beats the new one here.
http://www.wessexvc.co.uk/taxation.html

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

From wikipedia with citation numbers:

There's 8 million people straight away who will at the very least give a passing consideration to whether a car emits more or less than 100g/KM of CO2,

The game has moved on and the new Panda hasn't.
For those outside of a congestion zone a 120g/km 1.2 litre PANDA gives about 55mpg while 100g/km equates to over 65mpg and the competitor three cylinder engines are getting closer to their claimed economy rates than the twin cylinder does.

And then you get on to company car taxation. It will matter very much if a car comes in under 120, 115, 110 or 100g/km in the year 2012/2013.
The old model Panda at 113g/km beats the new one here.
http://www.wessexvc.co.uk/taxation.html

But the majority of those in central London are at merc 4x4s, not fiat pandas

 

[babbo_umbro]

From wikipedia with citation numbers:

There's 8 million people straight away who will at the very least give a passing consideration to whether a car emits more or less than 100g/KM of CO2,

The game has moved on and the new Panda hasn't.
For those outside of a congestion zone a 120g/km 1.2 litre PANDA gives about 55mpg while 100g/km equates to over 65mpg and the competitor three cylinder engines are getting closer to their claimed economy rates than the twin cylinder does.

And then you get on to company car taxation. It will matter very much if a car comes in under 120, 115, 110 or 100g/km in the year 2012/2013.
The old model Panda at 113g/km beats the new one here.
http://www.wessexvc.co.uk/taxation.html

I'm a bit dubious that all - or even the majority - of the citizens of our great capital are concerned about emissions.

The point you make about theoretical and actual consumption's interesting - logic suggests that reduced frictional and pumping losses contribute to the three cylinders being a bit more frugal, which should favour the TwinAir even more, but doesn't appear to do so. Mrs b_u's Euro 4 1.2 has given just about 50 mpg over its first year/10,000 miles, including a long trip to Italy and Germany, with a lot of 80mph+ cruising; very rarely seen as much as 55 and I'd be interested if the Euro 5 gets nearer that figure

 

[babbo_umbro]

oh-oh
aygo/c1/107 are all now under 100g/km starting from under £8K
kia and hyundai competitors are under 100g/km
The up! and it's sisters will have versions under 100g/km
the twinair panda will not be cheap.
FIAT are two tax classes higher with what they expect to be their volume seller the 1.2litre fire engine.

Looking at Quattroruote's listings (to try to compare prices), the 107 is given as 103gm/km and the Aygo as 105 and spec for spec there's hardly any difference in price with five doors. The Hyundai i10, 1.1 litres, is rated at 110gm/km, except for the BlueDrive that squeezes in at 99gm but carries a price premium of 2000 euros or more as far as I can make out, and it's slow. The first two are 1.0 litres and the Panda, at 1.2, emits 113gm/km and gives no more power on paper but is a little quicker. You'd have to be looking for a car seriously to unravel all the various permutations but, while Fiat needs to up its game - and I'm not impressed by the "new" Panda - I don't think the Panda's that uncompetitive.

 

[Nitrogen]

2012 facelift aygo/c1/107 are 99g/km
Twingo will have 900cc engine to replace the 1.2 litre unit which should drop below 100 g/km too.
perrys are selling picanto air for 7.5k

 

[ivantate]

Anyone been playing on the 2012 Panda Configurator?

On the fiat.it site.

Specs will be higher in the UK I imagine but it still seems to be easy enough to run up a 14kEur bill.

As an fiat employee we get 12% off, which puts the pop at 9k. And that is a very basic spec looking at the options you need to add.

Cant wait to see some in the flesh.


Lounge, Rosso Gioso, twinair, most of the other boxes ticked......... .
or is that
Pop, Multijet, Black....... .

 

[Super Uwe]

Re: Anyone been playing on the 2012 Panda Configurator?

I've had a quick look on there as well and agree that the Pop trim does look very basic indeed.

The Dutch Fiat site also has a configurator (not the best) and some of the standard bits of kits do differ (e.g. the Easy model in Italy doesn't appear to have aircon (and is an €800 option), whereas the Dutch one does).

Am also intrigued to see exactly what the standard set-up is going to be with the rear seats - looks like you have to add a "Flex Pack" in order to get all of the much-trumpeted extra features?

It is very likely that we are going to get to a new Panda as we need a little bit more space now that we have a baby boy. Will hopefully get to test drive one in the next few months.

At the mo I have my eyes on the 1.2 Easy; the TwinAir options do look tempting but at the end of the day I know what the 1.2 can do (which IMO is a lot more than most give it credit for) and it seems a bit pointless forking out the extra money.

 

[minardirule]

Re: Anyone been playing on the 2012 Panda Configurator?

Well thats certainly fun, shame they haven't got the 4x4 on there yet but some very nice new colours, not found a way to get rid of the silly squares on the seats yet either but I do like that you can change the colour of the dash.

Can't wait to see one in the flesh and take it for a spin!

 

[Nitrogen]

Fiat Panda classic now on offer here in Germany for €6990 while the new one will be costing around €10K with similiar specification.
At that price I'd take the current model Panda over anything else in the Citycar class.
http://www.fiatangebote.de/

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

A bit over priced for a 9+ year old Classic Panda

 

[gareth111278]

Re: Anyone been playing on the 2012 Panda Configurator?

Just had a look on U-tube, I'd never seen it before , looks like a Panda! is it 100% new or does it share a floor with the 'old' Panda?
i dont like the horrid colour in the adverts though.
anyway , I doubt we'll be having one!
There should be some good offers on 'old' Pandas in the next few months if you're not bothered about having last years model!

 

[JTD_Liam]

Re: Anyone been playing on the 2012 Panda Configurator?

Just had a look on U-tube, I'd never seen it before , looks like a Panda! is it 100% new or does it share a floor with the 'old' Panda?

It's using the same basic platform as the current Panda & 500 but with modifications to the suspension as well as completely new bodywork & interior as well as the addition of 2 TwinAir engines (85bhp turbo from the 500 and a new 65bhp non-turbo version).

Despite the many critisisms on here (not on this thread but elsewhere) about it not being completely new, it's far nearer to 'all new' than many efforts other manufacturers (notably VW Group) have churned out in recent years.

The thoroughly biased (anti-Italian) British Automotive Journalists seem to like it from initial tests & I for one can't wait to see it arrive.

 

[Super Uwe]

A bit over priced for a 9+ year old Classic Panda

Well it is a dinosaur but a relatively new dinosaur at that!

Mind you, that converts to around GBP 5,900.00 which isn't so bad, plus I imagine it has the latest EURO5 version of the 1.2.

I think it is a smart move by Fiat to keep producing a basic version of the current model. Not everyone is going to like the new rounded edge and increased size, so in theory they should have all bases covered.

Time will tell of course!

 

[gareth111278]

Re: Anyone been playing on the 2012 Panda Configurator?

Very interesting, thanks JTD Liam.

whats the score with the 'Twin Air' engine, how does that work? i'm sure its not a two cylinder air cooled??

 

[pdtrewern]

I visited a fiat dealer yesterday to get a part and the salesman said he can no longer place a factory order for a panda. He suggested perhaps the classic panda will only be continued to be sold in left hand drive countries?

 

[306maxi]

I visited a fiat dealer yesterday to get a part and the salesman said he can no longer place a factory order for a panda. He suggested perhaps the classic panda will only be continued to be sold in left hand drive countries?

More likely Fiat UK have screwed up the ordering

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

I visited a fiat dealer yesterday to get a part and the salesman said he can no longer place a factory order for a panda. He suggested perhaps the classic panda will only be continued to be sold in left hand drive countries?

Classic Panda production was stopped in the summer of 2003 for both left and right hand drive