Technical 2009 500 1.2 Lounge - Intermittent Engine Management Light and Limp Mode

[Cinquecento90]

Good evening all,

After a fair bit of searching on here, I thought I'd create a new thread in the hope that someone could point me in the right direction.

My 2009 1.2 Lounge has recently developed an issue where the Engine Management Light appears part way through a journey (usually at motorway speed). The issue momentarily disappeared the other day after filling up with a full tank, but has since reappeared. The issue will also reappear after clearing the fault code but this could be a few minutes or few days later.

When the EML comes on it is accompanied by a 'Check Engine' message and the car seems to go into limp mode (very poor acceleration, can't get above 4000rpm).

I have done a MultiECUScan and received the following:

Engine / ECM
Magneti Marelli IAW 5SF8 CF5/EOBD Injection (8V)
ISO Code: 0D 07 67 07 57
Hardware number: IAW5SFHW401 - Ver: 00
Software number: 1308560 - Ver: 0000
Errors found:
P2299-62 - Accelerator/brake coherency - Signal compare failure
P1220-62 - Accelerator pedal potentiometer (feasibility) - Signal compare failure

Body / BCM (Body Computer Module)
Body Computer Delphi (312)
ISO Code: 40 83 AD 86 CB
Hardware number: FI61BC03CL2 - Ver: 03
Software number: 28210065 - Ver: 090A
Errors found:
B10AA-4A - PROXI configuration control - Incorrect component installed

ABS / ABS/BSM (Brake System Module)
Bosch ABS 8 ESP
ISO Code: EC 07 85 86 D3
Hardware number: 0265800800 - Ver: 00
Software number: BB 64461 - Ver: 0801
Errors found:
C1221-86 - Engine control (NCM) - Signal/message invalid

Electric Steering / EPS (Electric Steering Module)
Delphi Electric Steering
ISO Code: 31 83 8C 07 1C
Hardware number: 26132238004 - Ver: 41
Software number: 2613557102A - Ver: 0241

I have wondered whether this could all point to a battery/earth strap issue but am yet to try replacing either of these.

Would be very grateful if someone could please help!

 

[Cinquecento90]

In addition I seem to also experience a lot of juddering and an unusual biting point when driving off in first gear which sometimes makes it hard not to stall. Revs when starting engine and sitting seem to start around 1000rpm and gradually drop to around 800rpm with some fluctuations.

 

[John202020]

If it's never had a new earth strap it will need one, juddering could easily be the clutch at that age if original , check the brake pedal switch?
The rest I'm guessing, accelerator pedal position sensor?

 

[Cinquecento90]

In addition I seem to also experience a lot of juddering and an unusual biting point when driving off in first gear which sometimes makes it hard not to stall. Revs when starting engine and sitting seem to start around 1000rpm and gradually drop to around 800rpm with some fluctuations.

FYI - Juddering only seems to occur when EML is on - which would suggest it's linked?

 

[Cinquecento90]

After removing the battery and cleaning/regreasing the poles this EML problem seems to have disappeared. Anyone able to confirm why this is likely to be the case?

 

[John202020]

Modern cars are very intolerant of poor battery performance, poor connections etc can play havoc did you check the engine earth strap it may look OK but not be?

 

[jrkitching]

After removing the battery and cleaning/regreasing the poles this EML problem seems to have disappeared. Anyone able to confirm why this is likely to be the case?

Disconnecting the battery sometimes resets some of the warnings; folks often try this first, since it costs nothing.

The original fault could possibly have have been caused by an intermittent or weak battery connection, or it may just be a coincidence; if the former, the light should stay off; if the latter, it may well return, though you will at least have eliminated one possibility.

I'll keep my fingers crossed from you that your EML problem is now sorted.

 

[Cinquecento90]

Hi all, fair to say the problem has reappeared with a vengeance. It seems to be particularly prevalent during very cold weather. At the moment I'm managing by clearing the fault code from the ECU but this can strike at any time mid-drive and force the car into limp mode. Does anyone else have experience of this issue and found a way to fix it permanently?

 

[John202020]

Does the fault appear if the revs go 4k or at random?

 

[Cinquecento90]

Does the fault appear if the revs go 4k or at random?

At random

 

[Danoid]

Have you changed the earth strap yet? It’s the one under the battery.

I replaced mine, it was okayish but not frayed like some others I’ve seen.

I replaced mine with this

Halfords Negative Battery Cable 45cm (18") | Halfords UK

Shop the latest The Halfords Negative Battery Cable is suitable for replacing corroded or faulty battery cables. at Halfords UK

www.halfords.com

cheap enough and a very easy DIY job

 

[Cinquecento90]

Hi all - so a few months back I replaced the earth strap and this completely fixed the issue. Unfortunately now that the weather has turned damper/colder - I had my first 'Check Engine' warning on the dash for several months.

Any further advice?

 

[John202020]

When was the battery last replaced?

 

[Cinquecento90]

Good question - not for a while. I did charge it recently and it seemed to improve matters - but has since fallen back to the normaly intermittency.

 

[John202020]

This might help if you need one

B36 Varta Blue Dynamic Car Battery 12V 44Ah (544401042) (002L 202)

B36 VARTA Blue Dynamic Car Battery <i>Innovation with Purpose, Premium Experience, Powerful History</i> VARTA was founded in 1887 Germany, and was established fully in 1904 by delivering the first electric vehicle battery, famously driven by Thomas Edison. Soon after, VARTA delivers the first...

www.tayna.co.uk

This would also work with higher capacity and cold cranking amps

EA530 Exide Premium Car Battery 079TE

EA530 Exide Premium Car Battery 079TE Exide are one of the leading battery manufacturers companies in the world and have been delivering quality in the automotive and infrastructure sectors for more than 130 years! Exide EA530 premium car batteries are Exide's leading wet lead acid battery...

www.tayna.co.uk

Oddly for our car they recommend a battery more expensive than the Varta with poorer performance our is a 09 pop

 

[steveras57]

Have a look at TANYA BATTERIES! (just google it!) good choice fair prices quick delivery! they give you sizes and different specs !-if you have stop start you want the highest cca (cold cranking amps!) rating you can get (or afford). battery issues can effect running systems but its more likely a component linked to that system! in your case the poteniometer switch which is part of the brake pedal! not to expensive on E-Bay usually com as a complete pedal and switch assembly! not difficult to fit just fiddly! as its a bit of a stretch under the dash to the pedal box not recommended for the over 60,s (which i am!)good luck! and dont forget to let us know the outcome!

 

[Cinquecento90]

Is there any particular benefit of going for a higher capacity battery? Presumably this will run longer - but will it deliver higher ampage to help in colder weather?

 

[John202020]

Higher yes, I knowingly bought a battery slightly smaller than I should have(long story) for the Mazda I can tell its 100cca lower, so going higher than standard gives you far more breathing space when it's very cold, my dad's Accord has a battery the same size as the Fiat! It does start it but it's really too small I'd say even though it's the correct one that said the 44Ah in our pop spins the engine quickly even though it doesn't get driven that much

 

[steveras57]

Higher cold cranking amps specks for itself! also the higher the amp hours rating of the battery the higher the current it can supply! and for longer! .
All of which gives the stop /start system(if you have it! the best chance of functioning!.and if you dont then it still gives you a bigger safety margin and reserve capacity particularly in winter months when the usage and drain is at its highest!.
If you buy a battery thats to big and powerful all you have a wasted is money!
buy one thats to small and weak then thats more money + time + frustration and aggro!