Technical ESC, Hill Start unavailable, Tyre Pressure light, EML = Limp Mode

[500dad]

Daughter driving back from Uni in 2015 500s when ESC, Hill Start unavailable, Tyre Pressure light, EML lights come on, car goes into limp mode. She stops, switches off and back on, lights have cleared and continues on her journey.

Have noticed recently that car is lumpy on part throttle when pulling away when I’ve moved the car for her.

Any ideas ?

A search on here seems to suggest several things, brake sensor or EVAP valve.

Who’s had this and what fixed it ?

TIA

 

[500dad]

Stuck OBDII Reader on it this morning and has ECM error code P0101-62 “Air Leakage in Intake Manifold - Signal Compare Failure”
What next ?

 

[The Panda Nut]

On our 1.2 Panda that was the evapourtion cannister and the solenoid. It eventually put the eml light on and went into limp home. It was nothing to do with the manifold so dont start pulling the engine apart yet! Cannister lved in teh wheel arch, and the solenoid was inder the bonnet. There are a few posts on here about this so use the search and have a look as there have been variations. The work itself is not a long job but parts are pricey. Shop4parts help a bit.

 

[FiatMatt94]

Daughter driving back from Uni in 2015 500s when ESC, Hill Start unavailable, Tyre Pressure light, EML lights come on, car goes into limp mode. She stops, switches off and back on, lights have cleared and continues on her journey.

Have noticed recently that car is lumpy on part throttle when pulling away when I’ve moved the car for her.

Any ideas ?

A search on here seems to suggest several things, brake sensor or EVAP valve.

Who’s had this and what fixed it ?

TIA

This was what I had last year & it turned out to be the earth strap from the gearbox to the body was heavily corroded, changed it & all was fine

 

[500dad]

Update, took air box off, breather pipe choked, cleared that out.
Took MAP off, dirty, so cleaned with a spray of brake cleaner.
Put all back together after resetting codes.
After 5 mins if idling lights and limp mode on again! Aaaaargh

So EVAP appears to be under throttle body, with blue pipe connecting to it.
The banjo for the blue pipe on EVAP appears slightly loose, blue pipe is quite hard and I don’t want to try and pull it off.
There is a white/grey collar there too, does it have a retaining role.
Should the banjo be a hard fix to the EVAP for the blue pipe ? Perhaps that’s broken/cracked and causing air leak?

 

[500dad]

This was what I had last year & it turned out to be the earth strap from the gearbox to the body was heavily corroded, changed it & all was fine

On Fiat 500 ?
Can you explain where connections are please. Might be easy test/fix
TIA

 

[500dad]

Ok, took car for extended run after resetting codes, all ok on the run, the lights and limp mode present themselves if you are stationary and idling for 30 secs or more…..

 

[500dad]

So this afternoon I’ve ordered, EVAP valve, Earth Strap, and MAP sensor.
Will change components one at a time and report back

 

[500dad]

On Fiat 500 ?
Can you explain where connections are please. Might be easy test/fix
TIA

S’ok, found YouTube video, take battery and battery tray out to change cable

 

[500dad]

Ok, replaced earth cable on gearbox.
- as a note, I put a cable tie through one of the bolt holes and the arm to stop slave from fully extending when unbolted.
Cleared error codes, took car for run, drives ok, stop start etc all works ok.
Came home and reversed into drive, left idling, then errors appeared on dash again …… aaaaargh

 

[500dad]

Next moved onto MAP Sensor, took old off, and replaced with new.
Cleared codes, should also add to notes that I’m seeing C1221-86 error code as well as the P0101-62
Road tested, car drives all ok, but sadly when left idling errors appear on dash and we go into limp mode again.

 

[500dad]

Next I’ve moved onto replacing the EVAP valve. Now it’s tricky to get into, but a doddle when the throttle valve has been removed.
Air filter housing off again, and throttle valve staring at you.
Slide yellow retainer back on wiring connector to throttle valve and unclip
4 torx screws sees throttle valve off.
I took the opportunity to clean the throttle valve Venturi and butterfly with a brush and some brake cleaner.
Now the EVAP is easy to see, disconnect it’s own wiring connector
And you will see that the ends of a large wire C-clip holds it on
Replaced EVAP, hose on, cable connected, C-clip back on
Replace throttle body, cables, then airbox etc.
Starts up nicely, went for a drive, all good.
Left it to idle, and unfortunately hill hold, stop start, EML, all illuminated again…..aaaaaargh
I’ve ordered a brake light switch to replace, fingers crossed
Update to follow

 

[500dad]

 

[500dad]

Observations from OBDC scan tool
That after start up and sitting at idle, car will settle into 700rpm idle, nice and smooth,
Air intake pressure remains constant, fluctuating if you tickle the throttle, and from my limited knowledge fluctuates inline with engine revs when I graph the data. It doesn’t hold onto revs which I would expect if there was an air leak

 

[500dad]

Brake light switch received and fitted, took car for run all ok. Came back and left it idling, Grrrr ESC, ABS and Hill Start warnings and EML illuminated again after 30 secs or so of idling.
What next ?

 

[steveras57]

I reckon you need someone with fiat specific!! Multi ecu scan software to read your ecu,s for codes .
WHERE YOURS SAYS e c m signal invalid worrys me!- seems to imply that some element of the engine ecu function is missing or outside of expected values!.
You could try disconnecting the multi pin connection to the engine ecu to check all the pins are straight and making good contact with there female counterparts and give em a good clean up, but id try to get it read with mes as well.
Unfortunately there does not appear to be anyone close to you as they are spread pretty thin in Scotland, so you might have to purchase the software and leads yourself if you want to try this!

 

[500dad]

Load tested the battery today, battery tests ok.
Even swapped out battery for comparable one from my sons fiesta, recently replaced.
Fault still presents itself at idle.
Friend contacting a friend formerly Fiat tech, hope that bears some fruit

 

[Matt Quinn]

Probably a stupid suggestion and a long shot; are the reversing lights working? - The reason I say this is that I have a Qubo which suffered from the 'hill holder' issue. - I was ' aye getting round to' fitting a new brake light switch (already had a good/new battery; replaced for other reasons) but needed to change the reversing light switch for the MOT last week; fitting this also cleared the hill holder problem! - I have no idea why!

Unlike the brake light switch (which has two sets of poles: one normally open and the other normally closed - one operates the lights the other signals to elsewhere) the reversing light switch appeared to be just a single pole. I suppose it's possible this thing has a high value resistance across it; which would confirm its presence to an control module - I didn't test this.

The other thing that springs to mind is wiring... A lot of mine was quite 'glitchy'; connectors needing cleaned and re-sat; being from an electronics-related background this didn't phase me. It's important to clean connectors with a proper electrical cleaner and NOT something like WD40 or brake cleaner. Also, I've found one peculiarity of the blade type fuses they seem to have used is that they can fail or become intermittent with no visible symptoms... If just intermittent, removing and cleaning both fuses and the contacts they sit in seems to help.

 

[500dad]

Probably a stupid suggestion and a long shot; are the reversing lights working? - The reason I say this is that I have a Qubo which suffered from the 'hill holder' issue. - I was ' aye getting round to' fitting a new brake light switch (already had a good/new battery; replaced for other reasons) but needed to change the reversing light switch for the MOT last week; fitting this also cleared the hill holder problem! - I have no idea why!

Unlike the brake light switch (which has two sets of poles: one normally open and the other normally closed - one operates the lights the other signals to elsewhere) the reversing light switch appeared to be just a single pole. I suppose it's possible this thing has a high value resistance across it; which would confirm its presence to an control module - I didn't test this.

The other thing that springs to mind is wiring... A lot of mine was quite 'glitchy'; connectors needing cleaned and re-sat; being from an electronics-related background this didn't phase me. It's important to clean connectors with a proper electrical cleaner and NOT something like WD40 or brake cleaner. Also, I've found one peculiarity of the blade type fuses they seem to have used is that they can fail or become intermittent with no visible symptoms... If just intermittent, removing and cleaning both fuses and the contacts they sit in seems to help.

Thanks for this, going back out to it this afternoon, more to stare at it now

 

[500dad]

RESOLVED - it was the EVAP valve

Car ran faultless with the EVAP hose connection blanked with insulation tape. As soon as I removed the tape it was clear to hear it drawing air.
Changed EVAP fault cleared.

I can now understand that the original EVAP must have been changed at some point, however it was incorrectly fitted, not all the way home, therefore leaking around the o-ring area, and whilst the clip was there to hold it, it wasn’t correctly clipped in.
The replacement EVAP I had ordered mounted correctly, however it was passing air (ordered from AUTODOC )
Put the old valve back in and mounted correctly and it not drawing air, so all good. Reconnected hose. And she runs faultless once more

Hope this helps someone else
Thanks for the responses to my query too