Technical 2005 fiat ducato 2.0 jtd- injectors or bottom end?/

[lydecker777]

hi all,

ive got a 2005 x244 fiat ducato, the 2.0 engine..on 84k

driving up the motorway from work a couple weeks ago, 70mph, suddenly a loud engine noise, pulled over and thought injector? knocking, engine shuddering, no leaks etc even the recovery driver said almost certain its injector..

so ive ordered a fresh whole set of refurbished injectors, had trouble with number 1 not coming out, so had it hydraulically pulled ..
got multiscanecu put correct injector data in, injectors seated properly too

refitted , went to start, its takes a couple turns but starts and the engine doesnt shudder like before but the knocking still there ...

my thoughts are bottom end bearings now...

ive attached a video

if anyone thinks any different let me know

 

[bugsymike]

How is the oil pressure?
Can you pinpoint which cylinder by trying with the injector electric plug off one cylinder at a time, to take the load off, if bottom end?

 

[lydecker777]

Hi. Oil pressure is fine, it's back pressurising through inlet, so I must have a dodgy valve, head off job...when it went the engine was shaking violently on idle and making this noise, however its not shaking violently now, but noise still there, coupled with that back pressure it's valve issue...my mate had a look and took dipstick out while running, he said they would pressurise from there if bottom end went,

 

[bugsymike]

Hi. Oil pressure is fine, it's back pressurising through inlet, so I must have a dodgy valve, head off job...when it went the engine was shaking violently on idle and making this noise, however its not shaking violently now, but noise still there, coupled with that back pressure it's valve issue...my mate had a look and took dipstick out while running, he said they would pressurise from there if bottom end went,

I agree you can get blow by from the dip stick hole and from the oil filler cap if pistons are worn or rings broken , big end or main bearings will not do that.
A broken valve spring or cam issue could cause blowing or spitting in the inlet, you may see that with the valve cover off.
If you check the valves for excessive clearance that may be a guide.

 

[lydecker777]

yeah that's exactly it, either way I believe it's going to be head off, will try a pressure tester if possible, or a borescope if I can get one , I think personally the injector has gone and took a valve too,

 

[bugsymike]

yeah that's exactly it, either way I believe it's going to be head off, will try a pressure tester if possible, or a borescope if I can get one , I think personally the injector has gone and took a valve too,

A compression test is a good start, if you can do a leak test that could help pin it down more.
If you do have the head off and find valve or injector damage on the pistons, before you spend any money I would advise checking the height of the pistons i.e. when each pair are up make sure they are equal. The reason being there is very little clearance between valves and pistons on modern diesels and I have seen many with bent con rods, the damage may only have shortened the con rod by a few mm, but until fixed it will never run sweet, so it can be more expensive.

 

[LandyAndy]

As you can easily now remove your injectors. Remove the one in the suspect cylinder. Get pistons to TDC then apply air supply into the cylinder. You will then either get air out via inlet manifold for inlet valve failure, air out exhaust for exhaust valve failure, out of oil filler for failed rings, or piston.

 

[bugsymike]

As you can easily now remove your injectors. Remove the one in the suspect cylinder. Get pistons to TDC then apply air supply into the cylinder. You will then either get air out via inlet manifold for inlet valve failure, air out exhaust for exhaust valve failure, out of oil filler for failed rings, or piston.

I agree with LandyAndy, this is what I was referring to above. There is a proper tool to do this and measure leakage, however it is possible to make up an adapter to fit either injector or heater plug thread. A good tight seal is important.
It takes longer than a compression test to perform, but will tell you where the fault lies i.e. inlet or exhaust valve, loss past a piston, head gasket, into cooling system etc. depending on the fault.
You test each cylinder with the engine locked at TDC on the firing stroke, so both valves should then be shut, I use 150 psi from my compressor. You then disconnect and move to the next cylinder and do exactly the same.
I was first introduced to this tool when working at a dealership in the 1970s on petrol engines, but it works on diesels as well.

 

[cris1117]

Sounds like a dropped valve to me, I once drove a lorry from Cardif to London with a dropped valve so know the sound well.

 

[lydecker777]

Well after inspection today,

 

[lydecker777]

Ordered a set to fix them, very common on transits..if anyone would know of a decent timing locking tool set for the fiat 2.0jtd engine it would be much appreciated thanks for all your help

 

[bugsymike]

Ordered a set to fix them, very common on transits..if anyone would know of a decent timing locking tool set for the fiat 2.0jtd engine it would be much appreciated thanks for all your help

Hopefully no other damage