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Tuning 1368cc 16v - Classic Panda 100HP

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Tuning 1368cc 16v - Classic Panda 100HP

Does your Selecta model have vacuum assisted brakes?

I might do a conversion on my '88 Panda and try and fit a selecta servo if thats the case.

Anybody selling one? lol

Also in regard to what you said about fitting a modern Punto/Stilo 1242cc 16v engine are they all the same engine mounting? What do you do about gearbox mating though, surely they wont accept my 1988 standard Panda gearbox.

-edit-

Just found a 2004 Fiat Punto Sporting 1.4 16v engine on ebay. Any good for an '88 panda project? :D
 
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huckoveraduck said:
Does your Selecta model have vacuum assisted brakes?

I might do a conversion on my '88 Panda and try and fit a selecta servo if thats the case.

Anybody selling one? lol

Also in regard to what you said about fitting a modern Punto/Stilo 1242cc 16v engine are they all the same engine mounting? What do you do about gearbox mating though, surely they wont accept my 1988 standard Panda gearbox.

-edit-

Just found a 2004 Fiat Punto Sporting 1.4 16v engine on ebay. Any good for an '88 panda project? :D
Click to expand...
All late 2WD models (late 92 onwards) have servo brakes and older 4x4 Pandas have them too. They are all the same parts, so I would find one in a breakers and take all the bits. Hardest bit is that the master cylinder and servo sit on the passenger side, so it will mean new brake pipes to reach I'm afraid. The pedal force is transferred by a bar inside the car under the dashboard. You'll need all this too, along with the pedal box itself.

These points are re-iterations of points made in numerous places on this forum already, but:

Any FIRE engine will just go straight in and mate on your gearbox. Nothing else required. No mounts as you use all Panda ones. If your box is in good condition, it will be fine for a good while.

Buy any low mileage 1242 16v and use Punto Mk1 Sporting manifolds, fuelling and electronics. Modern 1242s are the same externally as the old ones. This will all bolt on easily and be easy to wire up. Modern 1242s, including 8v engines have steel rods, lighter valves and other goodies previously only found on the most sporty engines.

Using a 1368 16v leads to complications you don't need in the fuelling department. Keep it simple and you are more likely to finish the project and be happy with it first time. With some cams and a tubular manifold you won't be far off 100HP. The conversion itself should cost £400 all in:
low mileage engine, Punto manifolds with sensors, ECU and loom, swirl pot and pump, fuel lines.

Of course you can tell me you are a fabrication God and have built sportscars before and all of the advice here can be ignored and I'll tell you how to do it all properly!
 
lewey said:
All late 2WD models (late 92 onwards) have servo brakes and older 4x4 Pandas have them too. They are all the same parts, so I would find one in a breakers and take all the bits. Hardest bit is that the master cylinder and servo sit on the passenger side, so it will mean new brake pipes to reach I'm afraid. The pedal force is transferred by a bar inside the car under the dashboard. You'll need all this too, along with the pedal box itself.

These points are re-iterations of points made in numerous places on this forum already, but:

Any FIRE engine will just go straight in and mate on your gearbox. Nothing else required. No mounts as you use all Panda ones. If your box is in good condition, it will be fine for a good while.

Buy any low mileage 1242 16v and use Punto Mk1 Sporting manifolds, fuelling and electronics. Modern 1242s are the same externally as the old ones. This will all bolt on easily and be easy to wire up. Modern 1242s, including 8v engines have steel rods, lighter valves and other goodies previously only found on the most sporty engines.

Using a 1368 16v leads to complications you don't need in the fuelling department. Keep it simple and you are more likely to finish the project and be happy with it first time. With some cams and a tubular manifold you won't be far off 100HP. The conversion itself should cost £400 all in:
low mileage engine, Punto manifolds with sensors, ECU and loom, swirl pot and pump, fuel lines.

Of course you can tell me you are a fabrication God and have built sportscars before and all of the advice here can be ignored and I'll tell you how to do it all properly!
Click to expand...

I'm keeping my eyes peeled for a 1242 16v but at the moment there are no sensibly priced ones on ebay.

I see what you mean about the 1368cc engines, and to be honest I think like you say it's complications I should steer away from. Plus in in my opinion I think that the 1.4 conversion is only most effective and somewhat easier to do on the latest Panda models such as yours.

So as far as 1242 16v goes, as that is my definitive target - what is the best year and vehicle to take from then?
 
Actually, Several things have occured to me since you mentioned the 8v 1368 this morning...

Does the old TLF manifold fit the 1368 head....

Is there a blanking plate or removable blanking castings where the old dizzy would go or would that have to be machined in.

Other than fuel pump can you see any other issues that will need sorting, i.e. thermostat location, sump shape, alternator/starter mounts etc

Oh, & what about compression ratios..

And which models had 1368 lumps in!

Cheers! (y)
 
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a73uk said:
Actually, Several things have occured to me since you mentioned the 8v 1368 this morning...

Does the old TLF manifold fit the 1368 head....

Is there a blanking plate or removable blanking castings where the old dizzy would go or would that have to be machined in.

Other than fuel pump can you see any other issues that will need sorting, i.e. thermostat location, sump shape, alternator/starter mounts etc

Oh, & what about compression ratios..

And which models had 1368 lumps in!

Cheers! (y)
Click to expand...
I don't know enough about the engines to comment on compatibility. I don't know if they are based on the old 8v heads or a new design completely. You'll have to research! Other forums, particularly Punto and Cinquecento will have talked about this.

However, I really don't think retro-fitting a dizzy to any engine is a good idea. It doesn't make any sense in the long run. It is so much easier to use the existing crank sensor with some simple electronics to run the ignition. It will be more reliable, higher performance and easier to implement.

I know it's not quite the same, but it was tried before by the member Xsisley on a 16v head , but it didn't seem to operate after quite a lot of effort.

Only cars with the engine that I know are Grande Punto, Doblo and Fiorino.
 
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Much appreciated Lewey (y)

I feel that crank sensors & coil packs are less reliable long term than electronic distributors & are more likely to result in total breakdown. I know the old FIRE dizzys had a reputation, but I`ve only had 1 failure in the last 18 years of FIRE ownership in Uno`s & Panda`s, so they cant be that bad!

Crank sensors & coilpacks are a common failure on all modern cars & go alot more regulary than traditional distributors & normal coils ever did, they also tend to leave you completely stranded where as dizzys tend to give you warning, & even when failing, will keep going but with reduced performance.

Aside from that, I dont want to have to splice any of the original wiring or build in any ECU`s, neither do I want a `modern` looking engine bay. The only possible concession I`m prepaired to make is the inlet manifold & carb set up as I know this will be a hell of a restriction. I`ve even considered twin SU`s for retro-ness & availability!

The build has to also be quick, this is my main `runner` & so once the engines built, I want to be able to bung it in within a few hours & for it to run straight away with no significant further running issues to deal with, no major adjustments or have to carry out any further weeks & months of modifications to make it run properly.

I know what I`m like! if it doesnt work from the get-go it`ll end up being pushed to the side, as I wont have time to deal with big builds anymore, & I dont want to be left without my runner!


I`m primerily going for a slight increase in power so its more drivable, but with retro simplicity, economy, lightness & total reliability, which is what classic baby Fiats epitomise for me!

I really need to get hold of an 8v 1.4 :D

lewey said:
I don't know enough about the engines to comment on compatibility. I don't know if they are based on the old 8v heads or a new design completely. You'll have to research! Other forums, particularly Punto and Cinquecento will have talked about this.

However, I really don't think retro-fitting a dizzy to any engine is a good idea. It doesn't make any sense in the long run. It is so much easier to use the existing crank sensor with some simple electronics to run the ignition. It will be more reliable, higher performance and easier to implement.

I know it's not quite the same, but it was tried before by the member Xsisley on a 16v head , but it didn't seem to operate after quite a lot of effort.

Only cars with the engine that I know are Grande Punto, Doblo and Fiorino.
Click to expand...
 
Theres several reasons huckoveraduck, primerily because I want it to look standard & period.

I want it simple as well, no ECU`s, crank sensors, injection, coilpacks, just old school back to basics engineering.

I dont have room or time to be doing long term projects, if i did the 2.0 twin cam out of my Tempra would have been bunged in the Uno by now! The current plan is to lighten, balance & blueprint the 1368 lump under a big valve gasflowed 1108 8v head with matched manifolds (possibly a 1500 carb & then be able to fit & be driving perfectly within a day.

I want to also splice the lower section of a FIRE carb manifold onto something like a Strada/Delta 1500 twin choke`s upper inlet manifold to try at a later date.

In a nutshell, I`m not going for the ultimate in power or a modernisation conversion, if I did i could just bung an Uno turbo lump in easily enough, but I`ve got fast cars & I`ve got modern cars, I just want the torque & drivability of a bigger bore block without changing the basic character of the car.

I love my Uno to bits & its as fast as current Panda/500/Punto 1.4 up till about 50mph (thanks to its lightness), after that though, its an uphill struggle.

Cheers
:)


huckoveraduck said:
May I ask why you don't want to run the cylinder head that comes with the 1.4 16v engine? Is it missing or a bugger to fuel or something?
Click to expand...
 
a73uk said:
Theres several reasons huckoveraduck, primerily because I want it to look standard & period.

I want it simple as well, no ECU`s, crank sensors, injection, coilpacks, just old school back to basics engineering.

I dont have room or time to be doing long term projects, if i did the 2.0 twin cam out of my Tempra would have been bunged in the Uno by now! The current plan is to lighten, balance & blueprint the 1368 lump under a big valve gasflowed 1108 8v head with matched manifolds (possibly a 1500 carb & then be able to fit & be driving perfectly within a day.

I want to also splice the lower section of a FIRE carb manifold onto something like a Strada/Delta 1500 twin choke`s upper inlet manifold to try at a later date.

In a nutshell, I`m not going for the ultimate in power or a modernisation conversion, if I did i could just bung an Uno turbo lump in easily enough, but I`ve got fast cars & I`ve got modern cars, I just want the torque & drivability of a bigger bore block without changing the basic character of the car.

I love my Uno to bits & its as fast as current Panda/500/Punto 1.4 up till about 50mph (thanks to its lightness), after that though, its an uphill struggle.

Cheers
:)
Click to expand...

ahh it all makes sense now :) Nothing wrong with a bit of reverse engineering.

I thought you might have been missing a head for it.
 
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