General 100hp and Snow

[Punto_Pete]

Of course and that's my point Sure the tyres will warm up and be a bit better but snow tyres and just better full stop. Now I knew there were no cars coming and the road is nice and wide plus I was actually intentionally spinning the wheels so it's not as bad as you say

ok, my bad i think i mis-read your post.

i'm using uni-royal rainsport 1's atm and get on just fine in all conditions, i just take my time where i need to/when conditions are poor

 

[306maxi]

ok, my bad i think i mis-read your post.

i'm using uni-royal rainsport 1's atm and get on just fine in all conditions, i just take my time where i need to/when conditions are poor

Of course, you drive to the conditions and to the car you've got under you. I'm not trying to suggest that you're 100% guaranteed to fall off the road with summer tyres or something, just saying that using winter tyres will mean you've got a bigger margin of error to play with.

Maybe it's me but I just don't see the £250 or so it's going to cost for me all up for winter steelies, rubber and fitting as a high cost for better grip in winter, plus it's about £180 for 4 winter tyres and £240-280 for decent summer rubber so it does pay for itself partly as well.

 

[trackdayqueen]

You're really rather touchy about comments on your driving, aren't you? I'm not saying you drive like a reckless loon, although some of your posts point towards rather 'spirited' everyday driving, as evidenced by your rapid tyre wear issues etc.. Safe to say that you're rather fond of the rightmost pedal, you can't deny that.

What I'm saying is that even if you could see for half a mile and feel like you have plenty of space for stopping from 40mph, would you have sufficient stopping distance if a car cut in front of you or if an animal ran across the road?

It's not about what's feasible in ordinary conditions. Like most road tyres, I'm sure the ones on your 100hp are plenty fine in the cold as long as it's dry, in ordinary conditions, so to say. If you're able to refrain from driving when the weather turns sour and live in an area where the roads are cleared quickly, sure, you could drive through the winter on summer tyres with a little caution. However, you have to be prepared to leave your car and find alternative transportation if the weather changes quickly. Why not just put on a set of winter rubber and have that extra peace of mind?

I've driven through icy winters in a junker Corolla with polish-made tyres made from what I think was actually rock-hard plastic and I didn't crash once. But if I'd had to make any kind of emergency maneuver, I would have failed miserably and possibly hurt someone. I know now how foolish I was to drive that car in those conditions and as a motorcycle enthusiast I've now gained an even greater appreciation to how important proper grip is.

I got 14K out of a set of front tyres, there's nothing extreme wear wise about that.

It's not so much me being touchy about my driving, it's more people making daft assumptions. For example the road where I was driving at 40mph in the snow and your comment that someone could pull out of a side turning. Well that may have been possible if there were any roads that joined the road that I was on but actually there isn't so there is no chance of that.

If an animal ran out I would determine if I could avoid it, if not I would simply hit it. I take the same attitude in regular driving conditions, ie I'm not about to put myself at risk because a small mammal ran out across the road. In 7 years of driving that road I have not once seen any animal come across the road.

The point is it was nowhere near bad enough weather wise for the thought of leaving my car to cross my mind. Why would I do that?

I always have decent tyres on my car. I live in Manchester, there is no need for winter tyres I don't want 4 wheels and tyres taking up space in my shed, there is no need. I've driven for over twenty years on 'summer' tyres without a problem, why would I consider it now?

I've never heard of people in the UK putting winter tyres on their cars until I visited this forum. Maybe it's some kind of Fiat thing? If I lived in Scandinavia I'm sure we'd all be fitting winter tyres but I don't and I still don't see the need when I can cope perfectly well with the tyres I've got on the car. Having lived in Manchester for nearly 7 years this is the first time we've ever had any significant snow fall.

I also owned mid-engined cars with tuned engines for nearly 7 years. Then I had a BMW Coupe (another car with an LSD) I had 'summer' tyres on. I had no problem with that either. I just don't see the issue. So there's less grip in the wet and in the winter, that's fine by me, I just adjust how I drive accordingly, it's simply not a problem. In comparison driving a FWD Panda with only 100hp is very easy in comparison in low grip conditions.

 

[KozmoNaut]

14K miles is just about 2/3rds to half of what I get from an ordinary set of tyres and I'm no slouch on the road. Well, for an MJ driver, anyway

I assume you slowed down from 40mph each time you came across a side turning? Just curious

I take the same attitude towards small animals, if their lack of self preservation leads them to jump in front of my car, so be it. Unfortunately, not all animals are small. Even a perfectly ordinary dog like a german shepherd can do some serious damage, especially if it goes over the hood and through the windshield. Not to mention horses etc., which tend to run around aimlessly if let loose.

I live in Copenhagen, about 100 miles north in relation to Manchester, ie. not exactly in the polar circle and with a rather mild coastal average climate. This morning I woke up to 5cm of snow on my car (and everywhere else).

My point is that winter tyres would save wear on your more expensive summer tyres during the winter and keep you safer in unexpected conditions. Not to mention saving your nice alloy wheels from getting curbed by accident

I mean, I live in a 50m² apartment and I still have space for an extra set of wheels in my storage, Panda wheels are nice and small and easy to store

The only downside what so ever is spending 30 minutes twice a year to switch them over, not exactly back-breaking labour, either.

 

[trackdayqueen]

14K miles is just about 2/3rds to half of what I get from an ordinary set of tyres and I'm no slouch on the road. Well, for an MJ driver, anyway

I assume you slowed down from 40mph each time you came across a side turning? Just curious

I take the same attitude towards small animals, if their lack of self preservation leads them to jump in front of my car, so be it. Unfortunately, not all animals are small. Even a perfectly ordinary dog like a german shepherd can do some serious damage, especially if it goes over the hood and through the windshield. Not to mention horses etc., which tend to run around aimlessly if let loose.

I live in Copenhagen, about 100 miles north in relation to Manchester, ie. not exactly in the polar circle and with a rather mild coastal average climate. This morning I woke up to 5cm of snow on my car (and everywhere else).

My point is that winter tyres would save wear on your more expensive summer tyres during the winter and keep you safer in unexpected conditions. Not to mention saving your nice alloy wheels from getting curbed by accident

I mean, I live in a 50m² apartment and I still have space for an extra set of wheels in my storage, Panda wheels are nice and small and easy to store

The only downside what so ever is spending 30 minutes twice a year to switch them over, not exactly back-breaking labour, either.

An MJ is a totally different proposition, plastic tyres as standard. I know I was unfortunate enough to own one.

14K for 100hp front tyres is fairly reasonable really. The tyres on the 100hp are a hell of a lot more grippy than those on an MJ.

I'm not going to answer your question about slowing down for the non-existent side turnings because you make the heinous error of assuming. Never ever assume.

I guess the trouble is in Copenhagen you don't have the benefit of the Gulf Stream. I've never met anybody who fits winter tyres. The first i've ever heard about this obsession is on here, no other car forums that I visit or run.

I'm guessing winter tyres do not come with free wheels on which to fit them? Also it's just not worth it for a couple of months a year.

You may wish to store your alloys in your apartment but I CBA to do that in my garden shed. Just don't need them, won't fit them as I don't feel they are in any way necessary.

 

[306maxi]

14K miles is just about 2/3rds to half of what I get from an ordinary set of tyres and I'm no slouch on the road. Well, for an MJ driver, anyway

I assume you slowed down from 40mph each time you came across a side turning? Just curious

I take the same attitude towards small animals, if their lack of self preservation leads them to jump in front of my car, so be it. Unfortunately, not all animals are small. Even a perfectly ordinary dog like a german shepherd can do some serious damage, especially if it goes over the hood and through the windshield. Not to mention horses etc., which tend to run around aimlessly if let loose.

I live in Copenhagen, about 100 miles north in relation to Manchester, ie. not exactly in the polar circle and with a rather mild coastal average climate. This morning I woke up to 5cm of snow on my car (and everywhere else).

My point is that winter tyres would save wear on your more expensive summer tyres during the winter and keep you safer in unexpected conditions. Not to mention saving your nice alloy wheels from getting curbed by accident

I mean, I live in a 50m² apartment and I still have space for an extra set of wheels in my storage, Panda wheels are nice and small and easy to store

The only downside what so ever is spending 30 minutes twice a year to switch them over, not exactly back-breaking labour, either.

We live in a small bungalow and we've got space for 2 sets of spare wheels and the set we've got for the Subaru is bigger than the wheels for a Panda or 500. I must admit though that neither set of rims actually has winter tyres on it at the moment due to monetary reasons and the fact that the Speedlines I bought from the Subaru need to be refurbed

 

[Geddes]

I've never met anybody who fits winter tyres. The first i've ever heard about this obsession is on here, no other car forums that I visit or run.

I've never fitted winter tyres, or felt the need to apart from one day in about every five years.

On a rear wheel drive car though with fat modern tyres they're pretty much essential at even a hint of snow. Last year I helped push a BMW 5 series out of a dead flat car park in about 2" of snow. Once it was going if we stopped pushing it immediately stopped again.
Afterwards I got in my Vectra and drove out like it was a Spring day.

 

[KozmoNaut]

I'm not going to answer your question about slowing down for the non-existent side turnings because you make the heinous error of assuming. Never ever assume.

Were you on a motorway, then? Otherwise, side turnings would show up at semi-regular intervals, even if they are just people's driveways.

I guess the trouble is in Copenhagen you don't have the benefit of the Gulf Stream.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/67/Ocean_currents_1943_(borderless)3.png

As you can see, we do indeed benefit from the Gulf Stream, specifically the North Atlantic Current. The average Danish weather is pretty similar to the average British weather: damp, gray and soggy with occasional bouts of sunshine or snow.

I've never met anybody who fits winter tyres. The first i've ever heard about this obsession is on here, no other car forums that I visit or run.

I'm sorry, but I find that very hard to believe. Do you not have a country-wide federation of motorists and/or a minister of transport, both of which make recommendations for safer driving?

I'm guessing winter tyres do not come with free wheels on which to fit them? Also it's just not worth it for a couple of months a year.

Quite often, a free set of the appropriate steel wheels are included as a package deal when buying winter tyres. Luckily for me, I already have the steel wheels and I was going to buy alloys anyway, but I see your point, it certainly is an investment, albeit a rather small considering how cheap a set steel wheels is.

You may wish to store your alloys in your apartment but I CBA to do that in my garden shed. Just don't need them, won't fit them as I don't feel they are in any way necessary.

I store them in my storage, I've got a 3m² room in the cellar, plenty of space for an extra set of wheels in addition to whatever else I've got in there. The whole CBA thing is just laziness, never an excuse.

Let me put it this way: Have you ever tried driving the same car in bad conditions on both summer and winter conditions? I have and I'm definitely not going back to summer tyres all year round.

 

[trackdayqueen]

Do you know what Kozmo? I'm actually at the point of boredom with you. I do not see why I should give you a blow by blow account of how I drove along a two mile stretch of road, giving you speeds I went round corners and speeds I went on the straight. I actually don't care if you don't know and I've got better things to do than listen to your pedantic ramblings.

I have no need to justify my actions to you and quite frankly I'm not going to.

 

[Geddes]

I'm sorry, but I find that very hard to believe. Do you not have a country-wide federation of motorists and/or a minister of transport, both of which make recommendations for safer driving?

It's true. Pretty much no one in the UK buys a set of Winter tyres. For the most part Winters are a bit grey and drizzly. There's just no need.

 

[306maxi]

It's true. Pretty much no one in the UK buys a set of Winter tyres. For the most part Winters are a bit grey and drizzly. There's just no need.

*sigh*

They're tyres for low temperatures and not for snow or ice. I live on the coast here in North Wales and tbh the weather is quite mild but even here during the last 4 weeks we've only had 2 days where it's been above 8 degrees MAXIMUM and that's for december which is the mildest month of winter. Winter tyres are BETTER in the cold and BETTER in the wet (I think we get rain here in the UK sometimes?) and if on the there is snow or ice the winter tyres are far far better.

 

[306maxi]

I've never fitted winter tyres, or felt the need to apart from one day in about every five years.

On a rear wheel drive car though with fat modern tyres they're pretty much essential at even a hint of snow. Last year I helped push a BMW 5 series out of a dead flat car park in about 2" of snow. Once it was going if we stopped pushing it immediately stopped again.
Afterwards I got in my Vectra and drove out like it was a Spring day.

The problem is that having a bit of extra traction because of the weight over the drive wheels fools you into thinking you've got grip. Back in February we got a big dump of snow and I was driving on a gravel road with a few inches of snow and ice and the wifes Subaru had a surprising amount of traction on its summer tyres but when it came to braking even from low speeds it took an eternity to stop. Now of course that was a pretty extreme situation but there can be no doubt that winter tyres give you more grip and lessen your chances of an accident even through comparatively mild winters like we have in the UK. The thing is that if we actually had as much snow as people think you need to get proper use from winter tyres, you'd actually be needing to use studded winter tyres like a lot of people in Nordic countries do.

Ignorance is bliss though I guess

 

[Andy Monty]

*sigh*

They're tyres for low temperatures and not for snow or ice. I live on the coast here in North Wales and tbh the weather is quite mild but even here during the last 4 weeks we've only had 2 days where it's been above 8 degrees MAXIMUM and that's for december which is the mildest month of winter. Winter tyres are BETTER in the cold and BETTER in the wet (I think we get rain here in the UK sometimes?) and if on the there is snow or ice the winter tyres are far far better.

The problem is that having a bit of extra traction because of the weight over the drive wheels fools you into thinking you've got grip. Back in February we got a big dump of snow and I was driving on a gravel road with a few inches of snow and ice and the wifes Subaru had a surprising amount of traction on its summer tyres but when it came to braking even from low speeds it took an eternity to stop. Now of course that was a pretty extreme situation but there can be no doubt that winter tyres give you more grip and lessen your chances of an accident even through comparatively mild winters like we have in the UK. The thing is that if we actually had as much snow as people think you need to get proper use from winter tyres, you'd actually be needing to use studded winter tyres like a lot of people in Nordic countries do.

Ignorance is bliss though I guess

:stupid:

 

[306maxi]

:stupid:

Hehe You know what's funny? When I game online my name is Sgt Stupid

 

[ThisBitterPill]

This thread gets funnier by the day....

People pulling out of non-existant side roads, Runaway Horses leaping into the road, German Shepherds throwing themselves into your path....

Brilliant!

 

[KozmoNaut]

TDQ: Fair enough, at least you won't be hitting me when things go wrong.

This thread gets funnier by the day....

People pulling out of non-existant side roads, Runaway Horses leaping into the road, German Shepherds throwing themselves into your path....

Brilliant!

Let me tell you this: It's all fun and games until you actually have to avoid a flippin' horse or even a deer in the damn road. I've have to do this more than once and every single time, it's a terrifying experience, no matter how hardened you think you are.

I'll risk my life when I feel like it and choose to do so, by getting on a motorcycle.

In my car I want predictability, stability and all-round ability to get around. Proper choice of tyres during the winter gives me that. Slipping and sliding around and "having fun" on public roads is not part of that equation.

The sheer amount of silly bravado and machismo some people here and a surprising amount of people in the real world exhibit when it comes to driving is mindboggling, especially when it comes to winter driving. Everyone seems to think they're Colin McRae or Ken Block or Sebastian Loeb etc., but have no idea what actually happens when you crash or hit something or even worse, hit someone. I'm all for having a laugh in a deserted car park etc, but show some damn responsibility, why don't you?

 

[ThisBitterPill]

I'm all for having a laugh in a deserted car park etc, but show some damn responsibility, why don't you?

I'm showing responsibility by driving sensibly in bad conditions....I just think that your arguments are not as valid to UK drivers as you think....

I've come very close to hitting a few deer, but I'm not going to drive everywhere at 20mph just in case another one jumps out....

And where has anybody suggested driving like a Rally Driver....?

 

[306maxi]

Kozmo, do be sensible though. Whilst these people would no doubt be better off on winter rubber that's no reason to suggest that they're driving dangerously or anything.

 

[KozmoNaut]

Kozmo, do be sensible though. Whilst these people would no doubt be better off on winter rubber that's no reason to suggest that they're driving dangerously or anything.

No, of course they're not actively driving dangerously.

But having driven on wet, cold (sub-10c) roads on both summer and winter tyres, the summer tyres were distinctly unsettled even by small maneuvers unless they were very smoothly executed, enough to convince me that they would be as good as useless in an emergency.

Unfortunately, it's not something people are instinctively aware of without having been in such an emergency situation themselves. I've been there, I've got the scars and it's definitely not a situation I'd want to be in again.

 

[AskCy]

M58 today over 30 jack knifed lorries... how did that happen?.. too close? too fast ?.. then someone ahead slowed or slipped ? then everyone hits the brakes too hard to try and slow.... .. .. . too much speed, to close... its ok until you need to stop... now they have blocked the motorway and caused even more chaos...