Technical 1.6 16v Marea not starting

[gsbellew]

I changed the head gasket and timing belt on my 97 Marea at the weekend.
Now the car won't start at all, it turns over ok and there is a spark but it won't actually run, as far as I can see everything is re-connected correctly, what should I check first???????

 

[polecat]

Try the fuel cut off. https://www.fiatforum.com/showthread.php?t=29834

 

[gsbellew]

Sadly its not the fuel cut off, it nearly started last night but just won't catch

I might just bite the bullet and get a cam timing tool to be sure thats set up right. Did anyone else find that the cam shaft pully had a bit of free play? the "key's" on my cam's are smaller than the notch in the pully so they can move a bt either way, are they supposed to be like that?! seems very odd to me, but they do not appear worn.

 

[polecat]

It never is the easy one's

I would have thought the key would have to be tight, but it should only put you out by a couple of degrees, not enough to stop it starting?

Forgive me for mentioning the obvious, but, could you be a notch out?

Otherwise; have you checked the timing sensor or cable, its quite easy to give it a knock without realising.

Good luck.

 

[gsbellew]

It never is easy

More to this, had a good look last night with a friend who is a mechanic, it all looks like its in time, belt has been off and checked more times than I care to remember, but one thing we did notice was that while there is petrol getting to the fuel rail it does not seem to be getting into the cylinders!

I have checked all the fuses I can find (anyone have a list of where they all are?!) the injector light is going off like normal :bang: :bang: .

I'm going to take the inlet manifold off tonight and check all the connections to the fuel rail.

Forgive me for mentioning the obvious, but, could you be a notch out?

Otherwise; have you checked the timing sensor or cable, its quite easy to give it a knock without realising.

@ Polecat, thanks for your help on this one, even if it was a notch out it should run, even if badly, but there is no sign of it starting at all is the timing sensor the one behnd the inlet cam? I had that off when I had the head off, how would I check it?

 

[polecat]

If it is external then it is fitted below the crankshaft aux drive. The gap should be between 0.5 and 1.5mm. This is not adjustable and if out of spec may be damaged.

Some models have an internal sensor that fits through the casing onto a toothed rotor behind the crank drive. In this case you have to measure the length of the sensor, stick a pencil in the hole and measure from the face to the rotor. The difference should be between 0.8 and 1.5mm. This can also be mounted near the inlet cam.

Also check if you have an RPM/TDC sensor half way along the front of the engine block. Between the r/h two injectors.



Good luck.

 

[gsbellew]

Its an external sensor, I had it off when I was taking the bottom pully off but I think its back in right, I will have a look later, not sure about a TDC sensor, there is a yellow connector hanging loose around that area that I could not find a plug for, maybe thats from it

I'll have a look for that later too

 

[gsbellew]

It started last night after a tow, but it kept stalling when the revs were let off and there was an inector warning light on, I think the timing may be out slightly

What can cause an injector light to come on?

 

[polecat]

Anything in the fuel supply chain. It just indicates a general problem. Not sure if a timing problem would bring it on or not.
Check injectors, bleed injectors, clean injectors. Then start on the sensors. A diagnostic would help, sorry I can't be.

 

[gsbellew]

All help is good

I was on to a Fiat mechanic yesterday who suggested a compression test and getting the timing set correctly, I have shelled out for the timng tools so I can be sure I get that right, they said if the timing was out that the co sensor would throw a fault which would put the light on.

 

[polecat]

Good luck

 

[gsbellew]

I got the timing tools, exhaust was out by a tooth or thereabouts, just need to fnd time to put t all back together and hopefully she'll start

 

[gsbellew]

Still no joy

It'll start on a tow no problem, runs as sweet as anything, but if you let the rev's drop under 1000 it cuts out and will not restart without a tow

The injector warning light is still coming on so somethings not quite right there, anyone got any ideas what could be putting that light on and causing the car not to idle? Otherwise its running fine, had it going for 20 minutes, no overheating and after the first few minutes no smoke

 

[OilBurner]

Have you tried a compression test?

The problem of not running at low revs can sometimes be symptomatic of a blown head gasket (and yes, I know you've just changed it, but no doubt there are subtle differences in gasket thickness and perhaps even orientation when fitted too). Presumably you changed it because it was blown before? Are you absolutely sure that there was no damage whatsoever to either head or block face and that the new gasket is now sealing correctly?

Otherwise I would have suggested valve timing, most notably overlap if its a twin-cam engine, but you have said elsewhere that you have double-checked this using the Fiat tool so that should be OK. (And if you haven't checked it 100% as advised in the manual, I'd suggest doing so.)

In simple terms you need to look at:
1) What failed before and have you fixed it correctly
2) Anything that you may have 'disturbed' whilst doing the above
...little doubt you have already been through that loop though.

 

[gsbellew]

The head was skimmed and pressure tested, block was checked for distorton,Head gasket was replaced with a thcker one to compensate for the skimming.

I have not had a compresson test done yet but am going to get it done now, I was hoping that the timing tools would get it going. I have been over the engine again and agian but can't find anything disconnected, I think it may be diagnostic computer time :bang:

 

[gsbellew]

Its going on a diagnostic computer next week, I HATE FUPPING FIATS.

I feel better now

Hopefully it'll be something simple.

 

[polecat]

If the only problems you have are injector warning light and cutting out on low revs try checking the inlet manifold gasket. You can't always tell when one has blown but it will cause the mix to lean out.

 

[gsbellew]

Its a new inlet manfold gasket, But I maght whip it off and make 100% sure that the mating faces are clean and the bolts are torqued up right.

Only problems are:

1. Not starting on the key, but starting from a tow.

2. Cutting out at idle

3. Injector warning light

 

[polecat]

You've got a right one there.

Still sounds like it may be lean. Difficult without a diagnostic. Temp sensor poss, but should be ok when warm. Same with air sensor and lambda but they are difficult to test.
Could still be timing, but you've had that wacked a few times now.
Is it smooth when it runs? Weak spark or blocked injector?
Sorry I'm clutching at straws now.

 

[gsbellew]

Checked all the inlet manifold bolts and vacum lines last night, all fine, ran a second earth from the battery to the engine just in case, no change, its off for a diagnostic tonight, should know in a few days (the garage thats doing it is busy so I'm just leavng it with him till he gets a chance to look at it)

Turning my attention to getting the polo ready for the 2005 show season instead Hopefully the Marea will be able to take over as the family wagon soon though