Technical 1.4ie starting after replacing radiator fan following a boiling over

[worcestersource]

Whether it was the ice last week or the fan had failed in some other way, my car boiled over in stop-start traffic last week. Unfortunately, I couldn't just stop in the rush hour traffic but was able to kill the engine and coast into a side road as it boiled over. By the time I'd found coolant to top it up, the traffic had eased and I got to work (the fan only ever kicked in when the car was stationary and never when moving). I got towed home rather than risk driving without a fan. Both my own checks and those of the RAC confirmed the fan had blown out. The car was very happy to start and move around in the car park at work, so had been able to cool down and start again.

So, fitted a new fan today and replaced the fuse. The car started up but when I closed the bonnet, it cut out! It wouldn't then restart.

I thought I'd check the usual... spark, petrol etc. I have some nifty spark lights that you pop on between the spark plug and ht lead. Although no.3 (going left to right) appeared to be getting a spark, none of the other leads did. I tested 3 again and no light, so I checked battery and well under 12v but this could be because I'd drained it through all the cranking I'd tried.

After recharging the battery for most of the day, it ran for about three seconds and then died. It won't start again.

Given it's dark now, I've not run any other tests. Tomorrow morning, I'll test and charge the battery again as it might need a new one. The engine turns over just fine, so I doubt it's the starter nor earths.

Are there any quick gotchas on the 1.4? Could dropping the bonnet cause something to pop out or come loose? I know my way around a carbureted Rover V8 but this is new territory for me. Never seen so many computers! How do I test for petrol feed?

Thanks,


Steve

 

[bugsymike]

Any chance engine got seriously hot as in head gasket damage etc. Was there a major loss of coolant?
Hopefully not, but a quick check if possible is to fill coolant to the brim , leave cap off and crank engine over, if serious damage it will blow the coolant out of tank if you can watch it whilst cranking, another test can be after trying to start engine coolant smells of exhaust gas.
Can you take out spark plugs and inspected them? If they look OK fit them in the plug leads resting on engine metal, get someone to crank engine whilst you watch to see if all sparking at plugs or not.
If engine coolant was blown out all over it may have got on coils/leads etc. causing misfire, if only that then a good blast of WD40 should chase the moisture away.
Don't know about your model but some fuel rails have something like a tyre valve which if fuel pump has recently been activated will have fuel pressure at the valve, check with engine off as don't want fuel on engine.

 

[worcestersource]

Thanks Bugsymike. Food for thought!

Unfortunately, there was indeed a major loss of coolant. Annoyingly, I had had the head gasket changed only the week before! There had previously been a lot of gurgling from the heater. The head was skimmed and new gaskets fitted everywhere. New bolts too. The cam and water pump were also changed and it got a good service, as the car has an unknown history.

It sailed through its MOT and the car was running sweetly before the overheating. Annoying radiator fan!

I’ll try the engine coolant on cranking. Great idea and makes sense. When the engine was running, I did open the cap to look for bubbles but only saw engine vibration movement.

The engine ran after it blew its coolant, both immediately after overheating (with fresh coolant) and later in the work car park being moved from temporary parking, to under the lights to where it was recovered. It drove off onto my drive when off the van, and, of course, again did today until I dropped the bonnet. Maybe something’s worked its way loose?

I can’t see a reason to suspect timing, as the engine previously ran. So this means ignition or fuel. I’ll pull the plugs to see what state they’re in and if they are sparking. The spark lights I have are ace but there’s not a lot of slack in the ht leads, unlike the Rover, so maybe that’s a factor? I can check all connections and coil if there’s no spark.

I guess for fuel, I could pop the air cover off and check the butterfly to see if fuel’s being delivered. It’s the SPi model.

I’ll get there, I’m sure. If I can bring a V8 back to life, I’m sure I can get my little Uno working again. I absolutely love this car!

 

[worcestersource]

A positive update!

I brimmed the expansion tank until it settled and then cranked the engine. It didn't bubble or eject coolant, so I take that as a good sign.

It still didn't start, so I started to WD40 all of the connections and sensors that I could see. Amazingly, it started first time! I ran it up to temperature, the thermostat opened and the temperature dropped and then crept up again. When it got to just over 100º by the gauge, the fan kicked in and took it down to just under 100º. I would have thought it would have reduced it further? Still, whenever it crept up, the fan kicked in, so it never went beyond just over 100º.

The heater is blowing slightly warm but not as hot as it used to be, so I suspect an air pocket but I can get the engine bled at my mate's garage. It's not gurgling like it used to pre-head gasket replacement. He also has something he can put in the coolant to test for coolant in the combustion gases to be sure.

Anyway, after a trip to the garage, I'll give it a good test drive and hopefully all will be fine.

Steve

 

[bugsymike]

A positive update!

I brimmed the expansion tank until it settled and then cranked the engine. It didn't bubble or eject coolant, so I take that as a good sign.

It still didn't start, so I started to WD40 all of the connections and sensors that I could see. Amazingly, it started first time! I ran it up to temperature, the thermostat opened and the temperature dropped and then crept up again. When it got to just over 100º by the gauge, the fan kicked in and took it down to just under 100º. I would have thought it would have reduced it further? Still, whenever it crept up, the fan kicked in, so it never went beyond just over 100º.

The heater is blowing slightly warm but not as hot as it used to be, so I suspect an air pocket but I can get the engine bled at my mate's garage. It's not gurgling like it used to pre-head gasket replacement. He also has something he can put in the coolant to test for coolant in the combustion gases to be sure.

Anyway, after a trip to the garage, I'll give it a good test drive and hopefully all will be fine.

Steve

Glad of that,I have had that before with coolant shorting ignition that's why I suggested WD40 as a water dispersant .
Yes garages have a sniffer that can detect combustion gases in coolant tank, I used to have one that the crystals changed colour.

 

[worcestersource]

Did the sniffer today and the head gasket is a-ok. The heater’s not great, so I suspect either an air pocket (there’s an intermittent gurgle) or sludge in the engine’s gone and blocked the matrix… unless there’s anything else to think of there?

 

[bugsymike]

Did the sniffer today and the head gasket is a-ok. The heater’s not great, so I suspect either an air pocket (there’s an intermittent gurgle) or sludge in the engine’s gone and blocked the matrix… unless there’s anything else to think of there?

Good news about the head gasket anyway.
Did you have a new thermostat when other work was done?
Can you feel the pipes going to and from the heater at the bulkhead , are they as warm as the top and bottom hoses after a run?

 

[worcestersource]

Although it didn’t have a new thermostat, it definitely opens. During warm up, it’ll tick towards the 100° mark, open and the temp drops back. If I’m driving around in flowing traffic, it nicely sits just under 90°. The hose to the radiator gets nice and hot.

Good idea about the heater pipes. I understand there’s a bleed on it somewhere. Is that in the cabin? Do I need to remove the dash or heater fascia or something to access it?

 

[bugsymike]

Although it didn’t have a new thermostat, it definitely opens. During warm up, it’ll tick towards the 100° mark, open and the temp drops back. If I’m driving around in flowing traffic, it nicely sits just under 90°. The hose to the radiator gets nice and hot.

Good idea about the heater pipes. I understand there’s a bleed on it somewhere. Is that in the cabin? Do I need to remove the dash or heater fascia or something to access it?

There may be a bleeder on the upper heater hose and sometimes near the thermostat housing depending on vehicle.
It will be under the bonnet so no need to get under the dashboard.If bleeder is plastic be very careful as they have a habit of going brittle and snapping!
If there is no bleeder and one heater hose is cold compared with all the other hoses etc. it is possible to slightly slacken the clip on the highest heater hose when warm and let the air out.
However be very careful only to undo the clip a little as if engine hot there is near boiling water under pressure, so do it at your risk!!!
Garages can do it safely when engine cold by the use of a coolant pressure tester on the coolant tank.

 

[worcestersource]

There’s a bleeder on the expansion tank but the heater’s higher, so I don’t think that’ll get rid of the air. Any connections to the heater hoses in the bay are even lower, so only good for a matrix flush. I’ll check the thermostat again but I think there’s just a clip there.

I could jack the car up and see if my burping kit I have for the Rover works on the car.

The garage also said they could vacuum the coolant out the system, check that it holds pressure and then let it suck fresh coolant in. Apparently, this is how modern cars work. I quite like the idea, especially as it’ll flush the system in the process. My personal theory is disturbed sludge has clogged the matrix.

In any case, I’ve been out in the Uno for most of the day. Love it!

 

[bugsymike]

There’s a bleeder on the expansion tank but the heater’s higher, so I don’t think that’ll get rid of the air. Any connections to the heater hoses in the bay are even lower, so only good for a matrix flush. I’ll check the thermostat again but I think there’s just a clip there.

I could jack the car up and see if my burping kit I have for the Rover works on the car.

The garage also said they could vacuum the coolant out the system, check that it holds pressure and then let it suck fresh coolant in. Apparently, this is how modern cars work. I quite like the idea, especially as it’ll flush the system in the process. My personal theory is disturbed sludge has clogged the matrix.

In any case, I’ve been out in the Uno for most of the day. Love it!

I have never used the vacuum method although have heard of it.
Not sure if it would remove any sludge though.

 

[worcestersource]

They’ll give it a good flush once it’s empty.