Technical 1.2 4x4 Not Starting

[ClassicZoo]

Hi all,

My 2006 1.2 4x4 was occasionally failing to engage the starter motor. On turning the key I would hear a big click but nothing else. This was very intermittent and normally resolved after a few turns of the key but now it has happened again and isn't recovering.

Things I have tried following searches of the forum:

1) Double checked the battery and also tried to jump start with a booster pack just in case - no difference, just the big click.
2) Ran a jump lead from the battery negative to a point on the engine to check if it was an earth issue, no difference.
3) Rocked the car in 5th to check everything else is turning as it should, it is.
4) Checked the connection to the terminal on the starter motor. It seemed good, with the spring washer that holds the trigger wire looking in good condition. I cleaned it all with contact cleaner and reassembled. No difference.
5) Removed the starter motor and bench tested it. It seems to work just fine.

Does anybody have any ideas about what to try next? I did read some things about ignition switch issues but I'm not sure what the symptoms of that would be or how to test.

Thank you,

Matt.

 

[koalar]

You can normally tell if it's the ignition switch

By either turning the key very slowly

Or

Turning the key slightly more firmly than normal

Test the block ground also

Koalar random thoughts | FIAT Panda (Mk3)

Hi koaler success someone had insulated the small thread that fits inside the battery tray with tape presumably to stop it rusting I took the tape off so I could get the bolt off then the gauge instantly went to 3/4 so thanks for your help

www.fiatforum.com

 

[ClassicZoo]

You can normally tell if it's the ignition switch

By either turning the key very slowly

Or

Turning the key slightly more firmly than normal

Test the block ground also

Koalar random thoughts | FIAT Panda (Mk3)

Hi koaler success someone had insulated the small thread that fits inside the battery tray with tape presumably to stop it rusting I took the tape off so I could get the bolt off then the gauge instantly went to 3/4 so thanks for your help

www.fiatforum.com

Thank you.

Which is the block ground? Is that the one that goes from underneath the clutch slave cylinder to the chassis leg? Presumably to test I would just go block to another point on the leg?

 

[koalar]

Getting a good contact to carry 200 amps is tricky with jump leads, it a bit hit or miss

It's not a good way to diagnose, block ground, it never has been, lot of people use the lifting eye, its painted and isolated from the block

All you have to do it measure the voltage between the battery negative post and the engine bock, while cranking, low DC voltage range

Both need cleaning to bright metal for good contact

Less than 2 minutes and it will give you a yes no answer

Post the voltage

 

[ClassicZoo]

Getting a good contact to carry 200 amps is tricky with jump leads, it a bit hit or miss

It's not a good way to diagnose, block ground, it never has been, lot of people use the lifting eye, its painted and isolated from the block

All you have to do it measure the voltage between the battery negative post and the engine bock, while cranking, low DC voltage range

Both need cleaning to bright metal for good contact

Less than 2 minutes and it will give you a yes no answer

Post the voltage

Thank you. I will give that a go. Had to leave it for today but will hopefully get a chance to get back to it soon!

 

[ClassicZoo]

Thank you again for your help on this. I got back to it and rather than put it back together to then test the block ground, I just cleaned up the earthing points and replaced the earth strap given a new high quality one was less than £6.

It all works now and started like a champ.

I'm surprised the old earth strap was a problem though as the ends looked good and I cut the plastic off it to check the rest and again it all looked like new. Maybe it was just corrosion on a connection somewhere that the cleaning solved.

 

[ClassicZoo]

To update this further in case it helps anybody else, my celebration of success was short-lived as identical non-start symptoms returned a few starts after I replaced the earth strap.

What I did notice after those journeys was that the battery was leaking around the positive terminal. I checked the charging which was all normal. The battery was in the car when I bought it about five years ago so it was old, although I have reconditioned it annually. Anyway, clearly a new battery was needed so I replaced it with a nice big 012 to finally fill more of the tray. The car started immediately! I switched it off, went to start it a few minutes later, and 'click' nothing once more!

So I finally went back to where I started with all of this which was the starter motor. I have put a new one in and so far so good after about half a dozen starts so I'm hoping that's it. It's nice to know I also have a brand new battery, perfect earths, and squeaky clean terminals though!

 

[ClassicZoo]

Actually, scratch that once more! I used the car with confidence today yet, after parking somewhere I really didn't want to be stranded... Click, no start!

After multiple attempts with the key thankfully it decided to behave so I managed to get it home. I did try turning the key at different speeds etc and it was on a slow gentle turn it caught. Now it is home I tried to start it again which it did with no problem.

So given it has had:

New earth strap.
New starter motor.
New battery.

What is next? Any advice or thoughts much appreciated!

 

[koalar]

If you turn the key quickly does it fail

And if you turn the key slowly it cranks

Is it repeatable

 

[ClassicZoo]

If you turn the key quickly does it fail

And if you turn the key slowly it cranks

Is it repeatable

Sadly it doesn't seem to be repeatable, just chance. I am wondering if it's something to do with the ignition switch or wiring to it though.

 

[koalar]

Sadly it doesn't seem to be repeatable, just chance. I am wondering if it's something to do with the ignition switch or wiring to it though.

I had two fail in different ways

One if you turned the key too fast it gave a little cough, but would work fine if turned slowly

The other wouldn't work unless you turned it slightly firmer than normal


When it fails look at the dash lights especially the oil , battery, immobilizer and engine check

Also useful if you turn the interior light on, it the ignition switch is faulty there will be no dimming

 

[ClassicZoo]

Thank you, I will take a look and report back any oddities.

Do you know of any guides on how to change the ignition switch? I have tried the search function but without success.

 

[koalar]

Thank you, I will take a look and report back any oddities.

Do you know of any guides on how to change the ignition switch? I have tried the search function but without success.

Don't do what I did

I changed for an OEM one from a punto

They all kind of fall apart and you have to get a couple of discs lined up and oriented the correct way, it's about the hardest job you do on a car

It's far easier just to buy a ready done third party one just slap it on

Be aware there were two types fitted, you need to look at the contacts before ordering

As far as I remember there just you just push in a couple of retaining clips and they pop off

 

[ClassicZoo]

Don't do what I did

I changed for an OEM one from a punto

They all kind of fall apart and you have to get a couple of discs lined up and oriented the correct way, it's about the hardest job you do on a car

It's far easier just to buy a ready done third party one just slap it on

Be aware there were two types fitted, you need to look at the contacts before ordering


View attachment 482614
View attachment 482616


As far as I remember there just you just push in a couple of retaining clips and they pop off

Thank you that is very helpful! Yes I was planning to just buy the unit as pictured. I don't actually know how to get to it or where it's located so hopefully all will become obvious once the cover over the steering column is removed!

 

[koalar]

Thank you that is very helpful! Yes I was planning to just buy the unit as pictured. I don't actually know how to get to it or where it's located so hopefully all will become obvious once the cover over the steering column is removed!

Yes it's pretty obvious

Just make sure you undo all the screws I believe I failed here twice when doing it by touch and only noticed the last one when on my back and looking properly

If the switch is faulty you will not see any dimming of the interior light

There is a connector to the left of the battery where you can measure the voltage to the starter solenoid


If the oil can and or battery aren't light whin it fails the earth is fault, yes I know the it's new

 

[ClassicZoo]

Thank you I really appreciate your insight - I will get back to it at the weekend.

 

[ClassicZoo]

Updating this again in the hope it may help somebody. It seems it was indeed the ignition switch all along, a £7.99 part that was quick and easy to fit.

I didn't want to confirm too soon given last time I was bold enough to say it was fixed it then failed again, but this time I have now racked up over 50 starts so I am calling it fixed. Tentatively just in case...

 

[koalar]

Updating this again in the hope it may help somebody. It seems it was indeed the ignition switch all along, a £7.99 part that was quick and easy to fit.

I didn't want to confirm too soon given last time I was bold enough to say it was fixed it then failed again, but this time I have now racked up over 50 starts so I am calling it fixed. Tentatively just in case...

Well done