Hi.
Anyone know for sure which is valve clearance of fiat palio 1.4 8 v. Motor F.I.R.E.. I've searched all over the web without lucky.
Somebody say it is 0.30 I, 0, , others 0.45 E 0.35 I .All in mm.
Currently my valves range from 0.27, 0.28 Intake; 0.38, 0.37 Exhaust; and I think are a little closed.
Thank you in advance.

On all Fiat overhead cam engines which use bucket followers and shims then almost without exception the valve clearances should be:

0.50mm +/- 0.05mm - EXHUAST
0.40mm +/- 0.05mm - INLET

Having said this for some cars with higher lift cams (espcially the higher performance twin cam engines) the above valve clearances can make the engine very "tappety"/noisey.

To reduce the tappet noise it is normal to drop the valve clearance figures down.

This is typically done in stages.

Exhaust - 0.45 +/- 0.05mm
Inlet - 0.35 +/- 0.05mm

At NO time should clearances be set lower than

0.40 mm for Exhaust
0.35 mm for Inlet

These lowest set values will allow for a good 12,000 miles of running without too much risk of valve recession taking the running clearance too low.

Thanks for your answer.
The car has 50,000 km (31,000 miles) and while the previous owner did all the services in Fiat dealer, I doubt that they ever checked the valves, that, as user manual, should be checked every 20,000 km or 12,000 miles like you said.
Ultimately, it would be desirable to bring clearance to 0.35 and 0.45 at least to avoid tapping, or directly set clearance at 0.40 and 0.50 mm respectively because it is not the case of a twin camshaft as you mention?
PS: Is normal that lifters can be pushed down with the thumb making a medium strength?

Thanks again

stirling said:

PS: Is normal that lifters can be pushed down with the thumb making a medium strength?

Thanks again

Click to expand...

I'm a little confused. I'm not sure what you say/mean by lifters?

If you have a genuine Fire engine then you have a camshaft directly above the valves / followers. Lifters is more associated with the old Overhead Valve engine design where a lifter pushed a rocker arm that in turn depressed the valve.

Either way it IS NOT possible to press the valves down with your thumbs. You basically need special tools to depress and lock the cam follower in the down position to be able to then extract the shim from the top of the follower, measure it and then replace it with another shim of the correct size.

DO NOT attempt to change the shims without the correct tools otherwise you risk damaging the camshaft and will have to have the car towed to a properly equiped garage/mobile mechanic.

Well, an image is best than thousand words.
This is my camshft


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Don´t worry I´m not going to do the job with my thumbs. I have the tools, but I appreciate your concern.

Looking at these figures one has to think that the clearances have been delibrately set at:
Exhaust = 0.4
Inlet = 0.3

This made me check my Tipo/Punto manuals for the 1.4 Fire engine and they specify 0.5 for E and 0.4 for I valves +/- 0.05.

As said before this would give a minimum values of 0.45 and 0.35 based on standard values but it was common proactice on higher lift cams to target 0.45 and 0.35 with a 0.05 tolerance.

This means that your values are on the bottom range of what I would set/accept.

I guess you now need to make your own decision as to whether being 0.03mm and 0.02mm under lowest target is an issue / problem. You also have to bear in mind as well that shims are not cheap.

If you decide NOT to change the clearances (which I could well understand) then you MUST check them again in 12,000 miles. If the gaps have narrowed then you MUST reset them.

To my mind they're a little too tight. Noise shouldn't be an issue with them set at the factory (approved) settings.

I agree with you that it seems that from factory came with 0.30 and 040. I doubt that in only 30.000 miles valves clearance has fallen 0.07 / 0,08mm.
I mention that here in Argentina and for latiamerican Fiat (SEVEL) produced engines under the name "TIPO".
In these and as you say the valve clearrance was 0.40 and 0.50 + / - 5. I assume you already know but I leave the corresponding link.
MOTOR TIPO

http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_Tipo#Motor_Tipo_1.4_2
(spanish)

Engines "FIRE" by her side, equipped here the Punto 1.4cc 8v.and the Palio 1.4 8v, both under the denomination ELX until 2009/2010 and made in Brazil.
Currently, after a total update in 2012 the Palio come equipped with engine "FIRE EVO" with CVCP (Continuously Variable Cam Phaser).
In the old Punto 1.4 made here the valve clearance is 0.35 and 0,45. Don´t know if it apply to my engine.The torque and power are different.

In short I have two alternatives. carry the clearance to 0.30 / 0.40 which seems was the original, or to 0.35 / 0.45,the minimum values of standard.
Perhaps in the second case has some valve noise I have not now. Or as Fingers99 said: Not.
Well, thanks very much for your help. In a few days I shall make the job and will comment what happened.

s130 said:

Looking at these figures one has to think that the clearances have been delibrately set at:
Exhaust = 0.4
Inlet = 0.3

This made me check my Tipo/Punto manuals for the 1.4 Fire engine and they specify 0.5 for E and 0.4 for I valves +/- 0.05.

As said before this would give a minimum values of 0.45 and 0.35 based on standard values but it was common proactice on higher lift cams to target 0.45 and 0.35 with a 0.05 tolerance.

This means that your values are on the bottom range of what I would set/accept.

I guess you now need to make your own decision as to whether being 0.03mm and 0.02mm under lowest target is an issue / problem. You also have to bear in mind as well that shims are not cheap.

If you decide NOT to change the clearances (which I could well understand) then you MUST check them again in 12,000 miles. If the gaps have narrowed then you MUST reset them.

Click to expand...

I agree with not touching them.
Imo the clearance is ( more or less) within specs.
(And yes, you do need special Fiat tools to change the shims....)

Peter Pick-Up said:

I agree with not touching them.
Imo the clearance is ( more or less) within specs.
(And yes, you do need special Fiat tools to change the shims....)

Click to expand...

Of course, that´s the third option.
Perhaps is appropriate to apply: If something works, do not fix it.

(And yes, you do need special Fiat tools to change the shims....)

Click to expand...

Unless, of course, you measure, label, and remove the cam belt and cam. Factory tool costs something like £40. Although it's a nice thing to have, folk do do it with an old screwdriver, levering on an un-machined part of the camshaft.

To remount the cam, you need a quality torque wrench (= expensive).

fingers99 said:

Unless, of course, you measure, label, and remove the cam belt and cam. Factory tool costs something like £40. Although it's a nice thing to have, folk do do it with an old screwdriver, levering on an un-machined part of the camshaft.

Click to expand...

This is the tool sold here for both motors FIRE: 1.3cc 8v and 1.4cc 8v. and costs about $ 70 U$S. But is easy to DIY as I did.


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Doesn't look anything like the factory tool, more like the Toyota ones. BWTH. if it does the job and no harm........

You don't need a super accurate torque wrench -- but you'll likely need 2, one for the pulley bolt, one for the cam bushing nuts.

These are FIATs, after all, not Ducatis! (Compare the tolerances allowed )

The above, green tool looks like the one I use, and is somewhat similar to the factory tool, the other one, I don't recognize...
( And while Fiat is no Ducati, they both come from the same country, and some Ducati's drove with a huge FIAT logo on them...but that's going to change for the Audi logo soon I suppose..)

The tool under the green in to lock the lifters.
A picture will show.



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OK, thanks.
(I use a screwdriver for that task...)

I fabricated both tools.
70 dollars for two pieces of iron is is an armed assault.

Ahh, the good old days when the best tool in the armoury was a packet of fags.

Silver paper to repair a blown fuse & fag paper to set clearances, all while having a lit fag hanging from the corner of your mouth as you happily worked on the engine :devil:
I can remember a time when tappet rattle was cured 'on the fly' so to speak. with the engine running, you'd lift the rocker cover off & tweak the clearances until the 'chattering' stopped.

"Silver paper from Cigarette packs to repair a blown fuse"; I remember that trick.
Now you have to buy a kit, and bag fuse seems Christmas ornaments.10A one colour, 15 another, etc.and if you just do not have the correct call Batman. je, je