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Old 08-08-2013   #1
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Valve clearance

Hi.
Anyone know for sure which is valve clearance of fiat palio 1.4 8 v. Motor F.I.R.E.. I've searched all over the web without lucky.
Somebody say it is 0.30 I, 0, , others 0.45 E 0.35 I .All in mm.
Currently my valves range from 0.27, 0.28 Intake; 0.38, 0.37 Exhaust; and I think are a little closed.
Thank you in advance.
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Old 09-08-2013   #2
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Re: Valve clearance

On all Fiat overhead cam engines which use bucket followers and shims then almost without exception the valve clearances should be:

0.50mm +/- 0.05mm - EXHUAST
0.40mm +/- 0.05mm - INLET

Having said this for some cars with higher lift cams (espcially the higher performance twin cam engines) the above valve clearances can make the engine very "tappety"/noisey.

To reduce the tappet noise it is normal to drop the valve clearance figures down.

This is typically done in stages.

Exhaust - 0.45 +/- 0.05mm
Inlet - 0.35 +/- 0.05mm

At NO time should clearances be set lower than

0.40 mm for Exhaust
0.35 mm for Inlet

These lowest set values will allow for a good 12,000 miles of running without too much risk of valve recession taking the running clearance too low.
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Old 09-08-2013   #3
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Re: Valve clearance

Thanks for your answer.
The car has 50,000 km (31,000 miles) and while the previous owner did all the services in Fiat dealer, I doubt that they ever checked the valves, that, as user manual, should be checked every 20,000 km or 12,000 miles like you said.
Ultimately, it would be desirable to bring clearance to 0.35 and 0.45 at least to avoid tapping, or directly set clearance at 0.40 and 0.50 mm respectively because it is not the case of a twin camshaft as you mention?
PS: Is normal that lifters can be pushed down with the thumb making a medium strength?

Thanks again
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Old 09-08-2013   #4
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Re: Valve clearance

Quote Originally Posted by stirling View Post
PS: Is normal that lifters can be pushed down with the thumb making a medium strength?

Thanks again
I'm a little confused. I'm not sure what you say/mean by lifters?

If you have a genuine Fire engine then you have a camshaft directly above the valves / followers. Lifters is more associated with the old Overhead Valve engine design where a lifter pushed a rocker arm that in turn depressed the valve.

Either way it IS NOT possible to press the valves down with your thumbs. You basically need special tools to depress and lock the cam follower in the down position to be able to then extract the shim from the top of the follower, measure it and then replace it with another shim of the correct size.

DO NOT attempt to change the shims without the correct tools otherwise you risk damaging the camshaft and will have to have the car towed to a properly equiped garage/mobile mechanic.
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Old 09-08-2013   #5
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Re: Valve clearance

Well, an image is best than thousand words.
This is my camshft


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Don´t worry I´m not going to do the job with my thumbs. I have the tools, but I appreciate your concern.
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Old 10-08-2013   #6
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Re: Valve clearance

Looking at these figures one has to think that the clearances have been delibrately set at:
Exhaust = 0.4
Inlet = 0.3

This made me check my Tipo/Punto manuals for the 1.4 Fire engine and they specify 0.5 for E and 0.4 for I valves +/- 0.05.

As said before this would give a minimum values of 0.45 and 0.35 based on standard values but it was common proactice on higher lift cams to target 0.45 and 0.35 with a 0.05 tolerance.

This means that your values are on the bottom range of what I would set/accept.

I guess you now need to make your own decision as to whether being 0.03mm and 0.02mm under lowest target is an issue / problem. You also have to bear in mind as well that shims are not cheap.

If you decide NOT to change the clearances (which I could well understand) then you MUST check them again in 12,000 miles. If the gaps have narrowed then you MUST reset them.
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Old 10-08-2013   #7
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Re: Valve clearance

To my mind they're a little too tight. Noise shouldn't be an issue with them set at the factory (approved) settings.
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Old 11-08-2013   #8
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Re: Valve clearance

I agree with you that it seems that from factory came with 0.30 and 040. I doubt that in only 30.000 miles valves clearance has fallen 0.07 / 0,08mm.
I mention that here in Argentina and for latiamerican Fiat (SEVEL) produced engines under the name "TIPO".
In these and as you say the valve clearrance was 0.40 and 0.50 + / - 5. I assume you already know but I leave the corresponding link.
MOTOR TIPO

http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_T...tor_Tipo_1.4_2
(spanish)

Engines "FIRE" by her side, equipped here the Punto 1.4cc 8v.and the Palio 1.4 8v, both under the denomination ELX until 2009/2010 and made in Brazil.
Currently, after a total update in 2012 the Palio come equipped with engine "FIRE EVO" with CVCP (Continuously Variable Cam Phaser).
In the old Punto 1.4 made here the valve clearance is 0.35 and 0,45. Don´t know if it apply to my engine.The torque and power are different.

In short I have two alternatives. carry the clearance to 0.30 / 0.40 which seems was the original, or to 0.35 / 0.45,the minimum values of standard.
Perhaps in the second case has some valve noise I have not now. Or as Fingers99 said: Not.
Well, thanks very much for your help. In a few days I shall make the job and will comment what happened.
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Old 11-08-2013   #9
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Re: Valve clearance

Quote Originally Posted by s130 View Post
Looking at these figures one has to think that the clearances have been delibrately set at:
Exhaust = 0.4
Inlet = 0.3

This made me check my Tipo/Punto manuals for the 1.4 Fire engine and they specify 0.5 for E and 0.4 for I valves +/- 0.05.

As said before this would give a minimum values of 0.45 and 0.35 based on standard values but it was common proactice on higher lift cams to target 0.45 and 0.35 with a 0.05 tolerance.

This means that your values are on the bottom range of what I would set/accept.

I guess you now need to make your own decision as to whether being 0.03mm and 0.02mm under lowest target is an issue / problem. You also have to bear in mind as well that shims are not cheap.

If you decide NOT to change the clearances (which I could well understand) then you MUST check them again in 12,000 miles. If the gaps have narrowed then you MUST reset them.
I agree with not touching them.
Imo the clearance is ( more or less) within specs.
(And yes, you do need special Fiat tools to change the shims....)
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Old 11-08-2013   #10
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Re: Valve clearance

Quote Originally Posted by Peter Pick-Up View Post
I agree with not touching them.
Imo the clearance is ( more or less) within specs.
(And yes, you do need special Fiat tools to change the shims....)
Of course, that´s the third option.
Perhaps is appropriate to apply: If something works, do not fix it.
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Old 12-08-2013   #11
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Re: Valve clearance

Quote Quote:
(And yes, you do need special Fiat tools to change the shims....)
Unless, of course, you measure, label, and remove the cam belt and cam. Factory tool costs something like £40. Although it's a nice thing to have, folk do do it with an old screwdriver, levering on an un-machined part of the camshaft.
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Old 12-08-2013   #12
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Re: Valve clearance

To remount the cam, you need a quality torque wrench (= expensive).
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Old 12-08-2013   #13
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Re: Valve clearance

Quote Originally Posted by fingers99 View Post
Unless, of course, you measure, label, and remove the cam belt and cam. Factory tool costs something like £40. Although it's a nice thing to have, folk do do it with an old screwdriver, levering on an un-machined part of the camshaft.
This is the tool sold here for both motors FIRE: 1.3cc 8v and 1.4cc 8v. and costs about $ 70 U$S. But is easy to DIY as I did.


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Old 12-08-2013   #14
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Re: Valve clearance

Doesn't look anything like the factory tool, more like the Toyota ones. BWTH. if it does the job and no harm........

You don't need a super accurate torque wrench -- but you'll likely need 2, one for the pulley bolt, one for the cam bushing nuts.

These are FIATs, after all, not Ducatis! (Compare the tolerances allowed )
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Old 12-08-2013   #15
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Re: Valve clearance

The above, green tool looks like the one I use, and is somewhat similar to the factory tool, the other one, I don't recognize...
( And while Fiat is no Ducati, they both come from the same country, and some Ducati's drove with a huge FIAT logo on them...but that's going to change for the Audi logo soon I suppose..)
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