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Technical Ignition / starting fault

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Technical Ignition / starting fault

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jmac

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Hi all,

I have a 52 Stilo Dynamic 1600 and have owned it for 3 years now and have had very few problems with it, in fact, so far it has been one of the most reliable and enjoyable cars that I have owned. Over the last few weeks it has developed an intermittent fault in that, sometimes when I go to start the car all the panel light come on, as they should, then when I turn the key onwards to start - nothing! At first I thought it was the starter motor, but the panel lights do not dim down as they would if the starter motor was jamming, ie drawing large current. I have replaced the starter relay on the fuse board on driver's side but he fault is still occuring.
When the fault occurs it sometimes takes 3 or 4 attempts before the starter motor tries turning.
Any Techy guys/gals have a possible solution?
:confused:
 
Not getting any security warning problems i.e. key code?
Always check poor battery earth first when getting starter problems. Redoing the earth connection at the engine can save many an hour wasted

Fairly basic system, depends which end you want to start,

Starter end- (the starter solenoid is integral with the starter)
Disconnect the power feed to the starter by pulling off the connector at the starter and check for power there when ign switch turned to starter
Beware that red wire has constant power and brown/white is the ign switch starter solenoid feed signal.

If you have power at the solenoid then check the earth integrity of the starter solenoid. If you have power there consistently and the earth is good then the solenoid is faulty

At the ignition switch end , check for power at Pin 3 brown wire
 
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Thanks for your quick response guys, sorry I didn't have this in the Techy bit.
There is a clicking noise from the starter relay when the key is turned to the start position, which is why I first thought that the relay was on the way out, ie. burned contacts, but the problem is persisting with the new relay fitted.
The poor earth is worth investigating, will check at the weekend, although all other functions on the car are operating perfectly, ie no warning lights coming on. I don't think it is the starter because, as I stated on the original post, the panel lights and even my headlights don't dim down due to a large current being pulled from the battery.
Thanks again for your help
 
jmac said:
Thanks for your quick response guys, sorry I didn't have this in the Techy bit.
There is a clicking noise from the starter relay when the key is turned to the start position, which is why I first thought that the relay was on the way out, ie. burned contacts, but the problem is persisting with the new relay fitted.
The poor earth is worth investigating, will check at the weekend, although all other functions on the car are operating perfectly, ie no warning lights coming on. I don't think it is the starter because, as I stated on the original post, the panel lights and even my headlights don't dim down due to a large current being pulled from the battery.
Thanks again for your help
Click to expand...

First jump the starting directly and if it doesnot work then check your starter brushes some times their worn out and no longer make contact. ;)
 
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Put the fan on so you can hear it, then start the car. If the fan remains on when the car doesn't start, it's a dodgy ignition switch barrel.

(I think this is right, will test later; if you do it slowly, you should hear the point where the fan turns off).
 
If the starter solenoid is clicking that would tend to eliminate problems with the ignition switch I would have thought.

There's a nice little gadget you can buy at Halfords for a few pounds, a remote starter switch which is nothing more than a push button switch on a long lead but enables you to put power directly on the solenoid from the battery without risk of massive sparks and, most importantly, you can keep out of the way while you press it. Saved me many a time and handy if you just want to pulse the engine over for lining timing things up. Anyway, I'd try putting power directly on the solenoid and see if that's the root of your problem but don't mess about with jump cables etc

It has to be one or more of
earth
starter solenoid
starter motor itself
power in
 
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Rich: tried with the fan switched on, fan runs until I switch to start position and then the fan stops, when I go back to ignition position the fan comes on again. Checked earth to starter, etc., all clean and making good contact. The car seems to start ok after short journeys, but today after a run through to Glasgow, approx 30miles, the fault returned when I tried to start it again at the end of the journey, I have noticed this happening previously after an extended journey. Running out of ideas ******!
 
jmac said:
Running out of ideas ******!
Click to expand...
It's always a pain sorting out intermittent problems :bang:

If it had stopped working completely then you'd be stranded but at least you'd be forced to find the problem.

Handy access to the starter circuit diagram, a multimeter plus somebody to turn the key helps when the car is in the fault condition but very often none of this occurs at the right time. It's best to be prepared to target certain parts of the starter circuit (get an idea where you’re going to stick the probes in advance) and therefore isolate the problem a bit further each time it happens. Deckchair has already given a few tips on doing this.

If it's very intermittent I'd be tempted to remove the battery and carefully check/examine/clean the wiring/relays just behind the battery. If doing this actually makes things worse then at least you know the problem is in that area somewhere.
 
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Thanks Argo, it really is the most annoying fault! 9 times out of ten the car starts no problem, then the fault occurs and it takes about 8 attempts before the starter kicks in. Even when it kicks in, the starter sounds sluggish at first, but the engine always fires up right away (timing must be spot on!). I am starting to think that it is a starter solenoid problem which means a whole new starter! Anyway can't complain as I have had the car for 3 years now, and the only prob has been the famous air-con pipe breaking, although Fiat said I must have broken it and would not replace it under warranty:confused:
 
Thanks DC5 for trying to help me out, unfortunately I cannot get the file to open. I will continue to try various checks but is really starting to look like the starter solenoid, although there is never any klicking that you normally get with a duff solenoid or jammed starter.
 
DC5, thanks again for response, the link was very informative. The headlights and panel lights stay the same, so this makes me think that the starter is not getting any supply to it and thus no big amp drain on the battery. Still looking like a solenoid fault.
 
Hi,

I have an '02 Stilo 1.6 Dynamic with exactly the same problem! It started for the first time two weeks ago. (posted thread as 1.6 Stilo Dynamic Death in wrong area of forum!?). Prior to that I'd been having airbag failure warning lights (which I think I know the cause of thanks to Deckchair5). Anyway, I had to have it towed from Aviemore to Glasgow only to find it started again first time, no problem! It happened again yesterday. I left it overnight and it started again this morning. The wife just phoned to say it had happened again this afternoon. We're both using different keys, so it's not the keys. I looked up the emergency start-up procedures and my keycode only to find the five figure keycode is actually a four figure code?! The only Fiat dealerships in my area are Arnold Clark and Reg Vardy (less said about those two...). It seems the only way round this is to have it towed to a dealership, wait, wait some more, have a diagnostic done, then be given a range of urgent and expensive repairs which may or may not resolve the problem.
Sorry if this upsets all you loyal Fiat owners out there, but I will never buy another Fiat. Speaking to my local mechanic, he is in complete agreement. At his level all he can do without access to the diagnostics is to make the repairs according to what the computer tells him is wrong only to find that the problem has recurred. It seems Fiats are renowned for it!
 
Bellza,
Really annoying problem isn't it! My car always starts first time in the morning or if it has been sitting any length of time, it just seems to be start ups when the engine is hot after any length of journey. It usually starts after a few attempts. I don't think it is anything to do with the management system, I think it is a straight forward starter solenoid fault which can happen on any make of car - not just Fiat! I am going to have the car looked over the next couple of weeks when I am on holiday in sunny Singapore! Won't even be thinking about the car until I return. Let me know if you get the problem resolved.
 
Thanks for the empathy, and have a good holiday. I did get it started, but unfortunately I think the problem is slightly different with my Stilo. It doesn't have to be hot to not start. It does seem to start again when left overnight, but not always! Looks like it's going to the dealership...might see it again in a couple of months!!!
 
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