Technical High oil level warning.....?

[waynem325]

Hi all,

I've had this warning several times over the last couple of weeks and it has me a little confused.

I've had the car (2003 1.9 JTD) for about 4 months now and haven't had this warning before. The car was "apparently" serviced before i took ownership, but even though the service book was stamped i was a little suspicious when i checked the dipstick when i got home and found the oil colour very dark.

I haven't added any oil (or removed any for that matter) and each time this warning pops up i immediately check the level on the dipstick and it is spot on. Upon turning the ignition back on the warning is still there and only clears after leaving the car for an hour or 2.

The first thing that springs to mind is possibly a blocked oil filter....? But if it was serviced 4 months ago there should be no way the filter is blocked??? Which again raises my initial suspiciouns if it was at all serviced when i bought it?????

What do you reckon-is this a spurious fault or could the filter be blocked, or could it be something else?
Either way i think i'll do an oil and filter change asap (Are original Fiat filters the best option?)

Thanks in advance

Wayne

 

[Argonought]

Either way i think i'll do an oil and filter change asap (Are original Fiat filters the best option?)

If you have any doubts about the car being serviced properly then I'd get it sorted.

I'd move to a good fully synthetic oil and fit a Fiat filter.

Provided your JTD hasn’t been abused then it should get on very well with modern fully synthetics (mine certainly does)

 

[waynem325]

I'd move to a good fully synthetic oil and fit a Fiat filter.

I always thought fully synthetic oils should be reserved for performance motors and could cause undue damage/wear to non performance use?

I always use, and I was going to use, part/semi synthetic.....?
I've never paid much attention to the full ins and outs or the whys and the wherefores etc and always try and go with the tried and tested

How long have you used fully synthetic in your Stilo Argonought?

Cheers mate

 

[Argonought]

The point about fully synthetic is it can be risky to use them in engines which have been abused and/or poorly serviced. This is because a fully synthetic will clean your engine very thoroughly and might remove ridges of dirt collected around oil seals, pistons & cylinders etc. That's why it's important to use a fully synthetic whilst the engine is in top condition and the view seems to be that if you do then engine wear is reduced to very close to zero.

I've used Castrol Edge 0W-30 diesel in mine for about a year now and I haven't even needed to top it up. It's slightly green in colour so you know when you've got it! My JTD is NEVER noisy on startup (it used to be) and simply goes like the clappers. The only downside is that it must be one of the most expensive oils you can buy. There are cheaper fully synthetics out there and I’d simply go for something that’s recommended

 

[waynem325]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Castrol-Edge-Turbo-Diesel-0W-30_W0QQitemZ8058088076QQihZ019QQcategoryZ28641QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Is this about right for a 4 litre container of the stuff? When you said it was one of the most expensive i really didnt think you meant that expensive lol

 

[Argonought]

Yep - that's the one!

Castrol now recommend EDGE TURBO DIESEL 5W-40 for the JTD which is a bit cheaper. Not sure why they've changed (a year ago they recommended 0W-30) but if my garage can offer a good price then I think I'll stick with it. As I've said before it runs great in mine but I don't think it would be a good idea to try the 0W-30 in any engine that's started to wear.

 

[waynem325]

I prefer the thought of 5w-40 i must admit. Though I thought the recommended was 10w-40???

Silly question maybe.......but how would i know if the engine has started to wear?
The car is 3.5 years old with 38K on the clock-i've put 2K of them on in the 4 months i've owned the car and i have no idea how the car was driven before me.....except it had 1 lady owner. (which means nothin these days)

Ho hum

 

[Argonought]

I think I'd just assume it's had minimal wear unless you have any reason to believe otherwise.

In your position I'd go for the 5W-40. The "5W" means it will be thinner when you start it on a cold morning which is a good thing for reducing startup noise and of course means less wear.

The "0W" part of 0W-30 gives even better cold protection to an extreme degree. The "30" part means the oil is thinner at running temperature which is where the extra performance and better fuel economy comes from and you can see why it wont work with a worn engine. The critical issue here is that only a fully synthetic oil remains stable at these viscosities (a conventional oil would be likely to breakdown - become even thinner - too thin to protect the engine) which means you get performance and good protection both at the same time

I guess the fact it’s so expensive speaks for itself

 

[waynem325]

Thanks for the info Argonought

Its now been a few days since i last got the warning, so either the blockage has cleared (and there is a lot of crap flowing round the engine ready to block again?) or the little gremlins are playing tricks on my wigglies???

Either way I have a filter ordered and will do some oil shopping later on. This is my first diesel engine and have always used Magnatec on past petrol engines. I prefer staying with quality as opposed to cheaper alternatives-I know its an ongoing debate as to whether Halfords own oils and the like offer the same protection/performance as Castrol?
I am ignorrant enough to use Halfords own, however, I would feel uneasy driving around knowing I could offer my engine more protection by using Castrol-and lets face it-the more you care for your car, the longer it should last! (Theoretically anyway )

Aaaaaaaaannnnnnddddddd-the money I would save by doing the job myself means I can afford the good stuff and still have plenty of change left over

 

[its stilo the best]

diesel oil will go dark colour or black quickly because it has a detergent in it to clean the inside of the engine , so that would explain why your oil is that colour , if the level is correct the oil level sensor could be a bit dodgy ?

 

[Argonought]

....by doing the job myself means I can afford the good stuff and still have plenty of change left over

Good move

diesel oil will go dark colour or black quickly because it has a detergent in it to clean the inside of the engine , so that would explain why your oil is that colour , if the level is correct the oil level sensor could be a bit dodgy ?

This is very true especaily if you've just moved to a synthetic oil (obviously is dependant upon how dirty the engine is in the first place).

However my oil, after 11 months, is certainly not black and still shows a tint of green.

 

[PNL]

Only a thought here and I dont want to panic you Waynem but many years ago when completely rebuilding an engine for my Hillman minx series 5 I decided to change the oil pressure relief valve on the engine fitted it and along with reground crank /new bearings /pistons ect refitted the engine and on start up the oil pressure gauge shot up to 100psi and duly blew the oil filter of the block it turned out that he new relief valve was completely seized when inspected by the parts department that sold it to me they put a claim in for me to the rootes group [now Chrysler] and a letter came back saying I should have not started the engine with a seized relief valve so do I have to check that a new off the shelf part is faulty they never settled the claim just past the buck just a thought though as this MAY be a reason for your High oil pressure readings maybe muck obstructing it and jamming its operation :chin:

 

[waynem325]

Thanks for the replies,

as this MAY be a reason for your High oil pressure readings......

The warning I was getting was "High oil level". Should that be interpreted as high oil pressure.
I kinda figured the oil could have backed up, caused through blockage, to the level sensor hence the high reading. If the pressure was high then surely i would have got a "high oil pressure" warning?

But then i guess if there was a blockage then the oil pressure must rise???

I do have a thin covering of oil inside the engine bay-it was checked out before I bought the car and came back as clear of any leaks. I cleaned it up when i got home, and now after 2000 miles the engine bay is coated again. I've read on here that for a diesel that is normal. Its not excessive by any means-and has certainly never dumped any one the road, and hasn't altered the reading on the dipstick. (Does make me wonder where it comes from though, and why? Surely not normal???)

and a letter came back saying I should have not started the engine with a seized relief valve so do I have to check that a new off the shelf part is faulty they never settled the claim just past the buck

Gutted for you mate! In fact I'm shocked they sold you a faulty part and never accepted responsibility??!!!! Surely a consumer rights issue?

Quote:
Originally Posted by its stilo the best
diesel oil will go dark colour or black quickly because it has a detergent in it to clean the inside of the engine , so that would explain why your oil is that colour , if the level is correct the oil level sensor could be a bit dodgy ?

This is very true especaily if you've just moved to a synthetic oil (obviously is dependant upon how dirty the engine is in the first place).

However my oil, after 11 months, is certainly not black and still shows a tint of green.

Mine is definitely black! No sign what-so-ever of the original colour. Looks like crude oil :yuck:

 

[PNL]

I wouldn't think the two are not related and as our cars are now full of electronic sensors and not in many cases mechanical devices you may not even have a mechanical pressure relief valve I would ask someone like T14086 if this is the case I have found out though that electronic diagnostics are NOT 100% accurate in its operation as a recent injector job has turned out to be a inlet manifold air leak a leak that's cost me £400 to put right with the diagnostic examiner showing No4 injector fault and a replacement of the injector and the car still misfiring after it was fitted give me old fashioned technical know how before a damn machine any day

 

[Argonought]

I do have a thin covering of oil inside the engine bay-it was checked out before I bought the car and came back as clear of any leaks. I cleaned it up when i got home, and now after 2000 miles the engine bay is coated again. I've read on here that for a diesel that is normal. Its not excessive by any means-and has certainly never dumped any one the road, and hasn't altered the reading on the dipstick. (Does make me wonder where it comes from though, and why? Surely not normal???)

This doesn't sound right at all. My engine bay is pretty much pristine. There's small amounts of seepage under the engine cover but that's about it.

All modern engines are closed systems so the only way oil can escape (apart from a leak) is from damaged vapour return pipes and the like. I'd inspect all pipework carefully and also be wary if anyone has modified the induction (air filter etc).

 

[waynem325]

This doesn't sound right at all.

My thoughts entirely-i'll have a quick search on here and see if i can find what i read-i may even take a piccy later (when/if it stops raining) and see what you think?

I believe it was a pressure check that was conducted before buying the car-i never saw it take place and was only told by the salesman- "Nothing to worry about" was his words-hope he was right

 

[waynem325]

I read this the other day:

https://www.fiatforum.com/stilo/77719-oil-around-turbo-pipe.html


I took comfort from:

same on our jtd. seems normal on most diesels.

 

[waynem325]

Here's a look-see:

Red arrow points to where the oil is. Its only in this area.
Icidentally-what is the silver/blue canister that the green arrow is pointing to?
And a little closer:

What do you think?

 

[Argonought]

The canister is your diesel filter. This gets changed during many services and also has a tendency to leak.

I'd say the oil leak shown in your photo needs to be resolved without any question. Can you not trace the leak back to its source. Take off the engine cover and it might be obvious.

......otherwise one of the techies might have an idea.

 

[waynem325]

The leak was my main concern when buying, but after it was supposedly checked I was reassured. I figured if it were to be anything serious something would become obvious within the (Huge) 3 month warranty.

I cleaned it immediately and kept checking every few days. After a couple of weeks there was no obvious return and pretty much forgot about it. Its only since I got the oil level warning that i've had a nose around under the bonnet and found its return.

Like you say I can take the engine cover off and see exactly where its coming from???