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Old 07-11-2008   #1
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Question Software update for ECU/throttle body, MAP sensor fault

I have on two occasions experienced an "Engine fault" warning on my 2002 Stilo 1.6, on both occasions an error code reader has displayed the code P0105 (Manifold Absolute Pressure/Barometric Pressure Circuit), but the car has behaved well without any warning as soon as the code has been deleted from the car's memory (at least until the next occurrence of the same error after a few months).

Though the P0105 fault code indicates that there may be something wrong with the MAP sensor, I have read on this forum that on some Stilos (and especially the 1.6 petrol ones, if memory serves me) the problem is not the MAP sensor, and that a software update is what is needed to fix the problem.

My problem is to convince my Fiat dealer that new software for my car actually exists, as my insisting that there is might not be enough to convince the dealer (no success so far, at least), and I feel rather silly as a non-technical person when insisting on something I don't really know all that much about.

Does anyone here have any information that I may give my dealer to convince them that this software update exists (and which might perhaps facilitate their efforts to locate it)? Software name, reference IDs, version numbers, etc?
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Old 07-11-2008   #2
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Re: Software update for ECU/throttle body, MAP sensor fault

Service bulletin 10.11.03.

This is ages-old now.... are they a new Dealer, or just woefully inept?

If they were to plug-in the Examiner and enter the ECU programming environment, it'll come up with any updates required.
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Old 07-11-2008   #3
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Re: Software update for ECU/throttle body, MAP sensor fault

I have on two occasions experienced an engine fault" warning on my 2002 Stilo 1.6, on both occasions an error code reader has displayed the code P0105 (Manifold Absolute Pressure/Barometric Pressure Circuit), but the car has behaved well without any warning as soon as the code has been deleted from the car's memory (at least until the next occurrence of the same error after a few months).

Yes the 1.6 guesses extremely well and ignores the MAP if it has any doubts about it, you'd hardly ever know there was a problem apart from the fuel consumption which will plummet

Though the P0105 fault code indicates that there may be something wrong with the MAP sensor,
Not really, the P0105 warns it's detected something not right with the MAP sensor circuit and not the MAP sensor itself necessarily. Hardly anything goes wrong with the MAP sensor as it's all solid state. It's saying the MAP circuit is showing ridiculous amounts which is making the ECU say "OK I'm ignoring you from now on"

My problem is to convince my Fiat dealer that [software for my car actually exists, as my insisting that there is might not be enough to convince the dealer (no success so far, at least), and I feel rather silly as a non-technical person when insisting on something I don't really know all that much about.
Well there is a throttle body/ MAP sensor update but an update doesn't "fix" the problem, it just makes it more tolerant to accept certain sensor parameters as not so bad and to get along better with its sensors. Your car may have already had the update as it's quite an old update now

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The fact it's stating the MAP sensor feedback is implausible then I would disconnect the MAP sensor connector, clean the contacts on the connector and MAP sensor with contact cleaner, let it dry, reconnect and then clear the fault code. You've just convinced it that it has a new MAP sensor to talk to and it may stop sulking now
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Old 07-11-2008   #4
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Thumbs up Re: Software update for ECU/throttle body, MAP sensor fault

Thanks for the info.

Quote Originally Posted by D4nny8oy View Post
are they a new Dealer, or just woefully inept?
It's a fairly new dealer. I don't have any negative experience with them, they seem OK. My car hasn't actually been in for a checkup for this problem at the dealer yet, so they haven't actually examined it. I thought I'd gather some more information about this software update before I deliver the car to them so that I know what to ask them to do .
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Old 07-11-2008   #5
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Re: Software update for ECU/throttle body, MAP sensor fault

Quote Originally Posted by Deckchair5 View Post
Yes the 1.6 guesses extremely well and ignores the MAP if it has any doubts about it, you'd hardly ever know there was a problem apart from the fuel consumption which will plummet
Does this mean that it won't always generate an error code even if it considers the MAP sensor (or its values) to be faulty?

The last time I got the engine fault error code, the engine stalled, and the idle was rather unstable once I started it again (though it died quickly if I didn't push the accelerator). Once the error code was deleted, however, everything was back to normal again.
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Old 07-11-2008   #6
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Re: Software update for ECU/throttle body, MAP sensor fault

Does this mean that it won't always generate an error code even if it considers the MAP sensor (or its values) to be faulty?

Once it recognises a fault for long enough or a number of times it'll fire up the fault code and from then on it ignores the MAP and works on its own base chart. But the base chart is pretty good for performance just not great for economy

The last time I got the engine fault error code, the engine stalled, and the idle was rather unstable once I started it again (though it died quickly if I didn't push the accelerator). Once the error code was deleted, however, everything was back to normal again.
Sounds like it couldn't work out what to do with the sudden weird MAP readings it was getting.
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Old 13-11-2008   #7
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Re: Software update for ECU/throttle body, MAP sensor fault

Quote Originally Posted by D4nny8oy View Post
If they were to plug-in the Examiner and enter the ECU programming environment, it'll come up with any updates required.
Sorry to hijack this thread but wonder if you can tell me, is the examiner regularly updated by default each time it is connected to Fiat. The reason I ask is that you advised me previously that there were ECU updates for the DPF parameters on the 500 1.3 MJT.
I am having the oil changed on Saturday and they will need to connect the examiner to reset the warning message. If I ask them to check for ECU updates at the same time will they just say "it needs to be booked again in for that to be done" or is it a fairly speedy operation that can be done there and then?
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Old 13-11-2008   #8
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Re: Software update for ECU/throttle body, MAP sensor fault

Only just seen this thread, there's a list of Fiat/Alfa/Lancia ECU updates here:

http://www.f-autronica.it/aggecu.htm?a
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Old 13-11-2008   #9
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Re: Software update for ECU/throttle body, MAP sensor fault

Good link but seems well out of date?

grimwau - some updates can be lengthy (seen some take 30minutes) but although some updates can be urgent, in which case they are issued as a recall, most are not. In your case (DPF) the update was a recall but be aware it only applies to certain cars within a certain chassis range. Also bare (bear?) in mind alot of updates are done while the customer is unaware during PDI, repairs, services etc
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Old 13-11-2008   #10
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Re: Software update for ECU/throttle body, MAP sensor fault

Quote Originally Posted by T14086 View Post
grimwau - some updates can be lengthy (seen some take 30minutes) but although some updates can be urgent, in which case they are issued as a recall, most are not. In your case (DPF) the update was a recall but be aware it only applies to certain cars within a certain chassis range. Also bear in mind alot of updates are done while the customer is unaware during PDI, repairs, services etc
Thanks Mr T, I guess as I didn't get a recall notification my car must be one that is not affected or else done on the PDI. Collected her on 31st May so not a really early model so possibly not affected. I was optimistically hoping that maybe this was the reason the car was telling me it needed an oil change so early.

Anyway, it is booked in for December 2nd for them to investigate the clutch noise and they are keeping it for a couple of days so I will ask them to check it out, I don't mind paying for the time it takes. If there are any updates available they can do it at the same time and then at least I know that if it happens again so soon it might be a fault.

The receptionist at Westover said that they had done a few of these low mileage oil changes so it is possible that this could be a problem, either that or the diesel is not really a city car. Maybe I will have to think of trading it in for a 1.2 model.
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Old 14-11-2008   #11
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Re: Software update for ECU/throttle body, MAP sensor fault

Quote Originally Posted by T14086 View Post
Good link but seems well out of date?
Yeah I know T.

I was only interested in it for the Stilo. From that list, it seems as though Fiat forgot all about the Stilo in June 2005.

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Old 14-11-2008   #12
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Re: Software update for ECU/throttle body, MAP sensor fault

Quote Originally Posted by Davren View Post
seems as though Fiat forgot all about the Stilo in June 2005.
nothing wrong with that
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Old 14-11-2008   #13
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Re: Software update for ECU/throttle body, MAP sensor fault

Quote Originally Posted by T14086 View Post
nothing wrong with that
That obviously doesn't constitute "slagging"
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Old 14-11-2008   #14
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Re: Software update for ECU/throttle body, MAP sensor fault

not at all...just a little banter
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