Hello there,

I'm having a bit of an odd issue - on startup I can hear a tapping noise from the engine, this goes away after a while (maybe a minute?)

Oddly if I turn the ignition off, and start the car again - the car doesn't make the noise at all?

It's a 53 plate 8v active with 50k on the clock.

EDIT: Also, when I got the car it would idle at 900rpm, now on startup it hovers around 1100rpm, and drops down to 900rpm after warming up - is this just a cold issue?

It's probably just the tappets waiting for the oil to circulate.... (I only have a 16v -- which has hydraulic tappets, unlike the 8v... -- and this does the same for a few seconds....)

As to the high(ish) revving, I think you've pretty much hit the nail, etc.... -- although no doubt Ziggy122 will be along in a minute to explain in more detail...!

50k would be a good time to check the valve clearances.

When was the oil changed last? Quite a few people on here have gone off chasing tappet noise to discover clearances that were at most a whisker out on one or two valves but that the oil was not getting to the top for various reasons. Many low mileage cars fall into the trap of extended oil change intervals when actually low mileage can be harder on the oil.

Brendan W said:

When was the oil changed last? Quite a few people on here have gone off chasing tappet noise to discover clearances that were at most a whisker out on one or two valves but that the oil was not getting to the top for various reasons. Many low mileage cars fall into the trap of extended oil change intervals when actually low mileage can be harder on the oil.

Click to expand...

I changed the oil and filter at about 45k in September, the oil filter was longer than the one I took off as the lad in the parts shop said there were two for this model.

The little brass pipe can get clogged up. Or, in extreme cases, people put head gaskets on upside down.

On the FIRE engines "a whisker" doesn't really apply -- IIRC, the tolerances are 5 times those on a Ducati!

The check interval is 30,000 kilometers -- it's part of the service schedule.

Well we can scrub the manky oil theory for the moment and yes there are two different lengths and there is also a different diameter which is a bit of a mess as at least one member on here found out - oil everywhere.

homeward said:

It's probably just the tappets waiting for the oil to circulate.... (I only have a 16v -- which has hydraulic tappets, unlike the 8v... -- and this does the same for a few seconds....)

As to the high(ish) revving, I think you've pretty much hit the nail, etc.... -- although no doubt @Ziggy122 will be along in a minute to explain in more detail...!

Click to expand...

Sorry Im late darling

Anyway - the engine revs are much higher as the car is seeing Cold cold cold cold - feck its cold
i'll run a little faster to warm up

Once i've started to warm up i'll calm down

Depending how cold it is - i've seen as much as 1,500rpm on the dash, and FECK it was cold outside
the engine likes hot, it dislikes the cold, espically if your car is like mine - it decided it no longer likes its thermostat and cant decide if its hot or cold....

mangopunto said:

I changed the oil and filter at about 45k in September, the oil filter was longer than the one I took off as the lad in the parts shop said there were two for this model.

Click to expand...

Brendan W said:

Well we can scrub the manky oil theory for the moment and yes there are two different lengths and there is also a different diameter which is a bit of a mess as at least one member on here found out - oil everywhere.

Click to expand...

There is yes 2 sizes and as im led to believe they are interchangeable
We had a punto in the college workshop the filter smashed upon removal, there was an engine stand with the other size filter on it - which we put on the one that smashed with no issues - because the diameter was correct so ensure you do have the right one

5K could be showing signs of needing an oil change, it depends on the quality of the oil that was used. This cold element does have certain viscosity effects on ye olde oil cans, its more like glue then honey till its roasted with 4 hot explosions

Ziggy

fingers99 said:

The little brass pipe can get clogged up. Or, in extreme cases, people put head gaskets on upside down.

On the FIRE engines "a whisker" doesn't really apply -- IIRC, the tolerances are 5 times those on a Ducati!

The check interval is 30,000 kilometers -- it's part of the service schedule.

Click to expand...

I know I'll be shot for this but I've sort of gone off the whole idea of regular valve clearance checking. Rocker engines, fine, they go off fairly quick but the bucket shim thing is so good by comparison. Nine times out of ten they are good and the other times can't say I ever noticed a difference. I'm not talking noisy top ends just the routine checks. Used to spend ages removing cams from Z650s for no gain. We got our 1.2 8v at 27k in 2005. Its now at 100k and I haven't checked the valves and don't plan to unless it gets noisy, loses compression or I am terminally bored.

Brendan W said:

I know I'll be shot for this but I've sort of gone off the whole idea of regular valve clearance checking. Rocker engines, fine, they go off fairly quick but the bucket shim thing is so good by comparison. Nine times out of ten they are good and the other times can't say I ever noticed a difference. I'm not talking noisy top ends just the routine checks. Used to spend ages removing cams from Z650s for no gain. We got our 1.2 8v at 27k in 2005. Its now at 100k and I haven't checked the valves and don't plan to unless it gets noisy, loses compression or I am terminally bored.

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Snap - only checked mine when i was doing a HG and we checked the head for how flat it was

Ziggy

As a rule they stay together remarkably well. But it takes -- what -- 10 minutes to check, and the tolerances are huge.

fingers99 said:

The little brass pipe can get clogged up. Or, in extreme cases, people put head gaskets on upside down.

On the FIRE engines "a whisker" doesn't really apply -- IIRC, the tolerances are 5 times those on a Ducati!

The check interval is 30,000 kilometers -- it's part of the service schedule.

Click to expand...

Which little brass pipe is this? Between the filter and the engine?

Is there much significance to it going away immediately if I restart the car? I did a search on the forums beforehand and someone mentioned a similar sounding problem that was (self) diagnosed as a ignition mistiming in the ECU (if that string of words makes any sense...)

The diameter of the filter was identical to the one I took off - I forget the make of the oil I used - I think it began with a C (not castrol though)

There is a little pipe across the top of the motor inside the camshaft cover. It distributes oil to the valve gear. If it gets broken,clogged or the pump is struggling to get the oil up there they will be noisy for a bit. A restart is then less noisy because the oil that was up there hasn't all drained back yet.
Does Comma ring any bells? The brand is not so important but the viscosity is and for these motors it should be 10w40. Can you track back and see what viscosity was used. May places sell so called all purpose oils 0w40 , 5w40 and so on. Most newer motors are running on thinner stuff like 5w30, 0w30 but older designs need the proper stuff.
The oil level is ok isn't it?

Brendan W said:

There is a little pipe across the top of the motor inside the camshaft cover. It distributes oil to the valve gear. If it gets broken,clogged or the pump is struggling to get the oil up there they will be noisy for a bit. A restart is then less noisy because the oil that was up there hasn't all drained back yet.
Does Comma ring any bells? The brand is not so important but the viscosity is and for these motors it should be 10w40. Can you track back and see what viscosity was used. May places sell so called all purpose oils 0w40 , 5w40 and so on. Most newer motors are running on thinner stuff like 5w30, 0w30 but older designs need the proper stuff.
The oil level is ok isn't it?

Click to expand...

Comma! that's the jobbie. It was 10w40 and the level's just below the max on the dipstick.

I changed the oil when I bought the car, and it seemed pretty dirty as if it hadn't been changed in a while - so maybe it requires another change? I was hoping to wait for a bit of warmer weather before changing though.

Really, you want a 10-40 semi synthetic (on later engines FIAT spec a fully synthetic). Dunno what the Comma is.

The little Copper tube thing is under the rocker gasket. It distributes the oil from the block to the tappets.

Remember, the oil should be hot when you change it -- take the car for a run and let the cooling fan cycle (come on and off) at leat twice, then engine off and let the oil out.